Walk-in Shower

[Sheffey]

Hello! I have a dilemna. I want to install a walk-in shower and I need to know what plumbing materials are necessary for the job. What goes underneath the floor to insure that no leaks occur? Please help.

[jimbo]

This is a pretty broad question. Do you mean a shower with a curb, or one you could roll a wheelchair into?

In any event, a waterPROOF liner must be under the tile. There are a number of special requirements.....the subfloor must first be pre-sloped to allow water to run to the drain. Then the waterproof membrane goes down...PVC, copper, or lead. These materials take some knowledge and skill to put down. Then a mortar sub-base goes down, and the tile on top of that.

The membrane must be continuous up and over the curb, and about 8" up the wall.

A good reference is the "Ceramic Tile Handbook" from the Tile Council of America ( tileusa.com)

Another excellent resource is the tile forum www.johnbridge.com

I do recommend that you get some books and do some study. Right now you don't even have a basic understanding to ask relevant question. There is a lot of help available here on the internet, but we can't build it for you.. You have to take the lead.


By the way, there are some more modern waterproofing systems than those I mentioned, so if you go into a tile specialty store, you can probably get some reference material and training about those.

[jadnashua]

Check out www.schluter.com on Kerdi...it is well suited to waterproof that type of shower and floor area. Noble company makes a similar, but probably a little harder to work with membrane. These are easier than the conventional liner since you only need the slope...then you install the liner membrane and tile directly to it. The conventional liner needs additional mortar on top of it to tile to, and results in a thicker total shower pan - makes it harder to do a barrier free shower, especially if it is a retrofit.

[rolls831]

If you want a shower pan that won't leak and can be tiled the same day you install it. Go to Tileredi.com. It has a 6" threshold. They supply the special thinset for the tile in the pan, it's called Latapoxy-300 Epoxy Adhesive. I'll be installing one that is 33x60. LOL.

[jadnashua]

There are other pans/systems that can be tiled the same day as installed. Another system, as opposed to a component that works well is Wedi.

[johnfrwhipple]

A Kerdi walk in shower build with Italian Marble and Glass Blocks.

Hello! I have a dilemna. I want to install a walk-in shower and I need to know what plumbing materials are necessary for the job. What goes underneath the floor to insure that no leaks occur? Please help.

I wonder how Sheffey's shower project turned out.

When designing a walk in shower your should decide on a number of things. What size tile you will be using. What type of mortar and grout does that tile need (some need special modified mortar, actually most tile companies recommend it) and who will be installing it.

Things like progression of the build should be thought about. Many builders like to get the flood test over early and prefer a traditional shower pan liner so this can happen at the same time as the other rough in inspections.

There are systems by Kerdi which work well but are very limiting in the setting material selection and other systems by pretty much every other supplier that offer up much better options when it comes to warranties and setting material selection. My favourite two membranes of choice of late are the Noble Seal TS membrane from Noble Company and Mapei's Mapelastic Aqua Defence.



My first Curbless Shower. This again is a Kerdi shower. It wasn't until I started working with linear drains that I realized the huge disadvantage Kerdi has on the other companies. I did two curbless showers with the Schluter system but have found Noble and Mapei's products make for better builds, quicker flood tests and I can offer up much longer warranties on my work.

There is a lot of confusion when it comes to building a curbless shower. You will find countless references to this ' 2" requirement ' of the top of the floor to the drain. Where this started and howe it spread online I can only chalk up to one man - CX. Showers are built here in Vancouver and around the world with far lower tolorences than that.

This year marks a huge change in the requirements since some of the wording in the ADA requirements have changed. Your best plan of attack is to meet with your building officials and discuss your plans.

As far as which way to go about making the job waterproof the amount of room you have will determine the path you take. If you can give yourself a nice 4"-6" recess then any and all systems are a go. If you can only remove prehaps the subfloor then a tile ready pan might be your best bet. The one from AKW my favourite - the tile ready company's pan looks ackward.

If you can't go into your framing then a linear drain at the entry might be your only option and this is my least favourite approach - although we have build a few this way.

If your new to the web and these online forums take a moment to sign up for Terry's page here. Then post your work pictures and questions.

Unlike other forums online Terry's site has the plumbers. It takes a plumber to figure out the venting and drain configurations. A plumber will spot a dry vent. A plumber will spot undersized piping. Many tile guys think it's easy and they might hook up a few drains per year. Plumbing takes years of training and schooling and we work with some of the best plumbers in Vancouver and not one month goes by where I don't learn a new code or "Issue" to avoid.



This barrier free walk in shower built with Mapei's Aqua Defence and the optional reinforcement mesh.

If you decide to follow one persons advice online ask them by email or phone for their company name and see if in fact they are a tradesman. Many posters online work for marketing departments or are just simply "Killing Time" online.



JW

[johnfrwhipple]

Preparing your subfloor with a recess is a great way to build a shower curbless.

This job is out in West Vancouver and the home is built with engineered IJoists. With an extra bean and a few smaller joists this builder gave me a 2" drop which is more than enough for me to install a linear drain on the back wall.

This is the approach we took to specify the shower build.





Building a walk in shower is no excuse to skip on the flood testing. Here you see that same slate shower above undergoing flood testing. This shower sat under flood for about 48 hours. I flooded a little larger area than first planned and had a little bit of water blisters where the liquid membrane was installed over regular 4-1 deck mud.

If you decide to take the liquid membrane approach these floor preps need a good 4 weeks to cure. We use a product called Mapecem Screed Mortar to improve this time from 4 weeks to three days. All though the manufacture says it can be done in 24. I have yet to try this. Laticrete also makes a product called 3701 which can be covered with Hydro Ban in 3 days.

Most times I build low curb showers and use the membrane from Noble because of it's extra large size and I can built a shower pan in one day and flood it the next. Nothing is faster than that.

JW

[johnfrwhipple]

Here is a recessed trench that I installed and we took a liquid membrane approach. What you can't see is that I used extra reinforcement material in all my corners.

There are countless options out there. Look for a system or complete system from one company.

Laticrete.

Mapei.

Custom Building Products.

The big three players in this arena. If your tile setter likes Custom's setting materials then use Red Guard. If you want to track down the Laticrete home owner 25 year warranty use Hydro Ban. If you are a Mapei man then Aqua Defense is rock solid. If you prefer a sheet membrane over liquids (we use these more than liquids ourselves) then with out a doubt Noble Seal TS is the way to go.





Notice the change from 1/2" backer board (Green EBoard) to 1/4" stock. This allows me to keep the membrane in one piece, fold the corners then later after my flood test lap over top. We finished this project with Hydro Ban. A barrier free shower out in UBC, Vancouver.

Unlike most of the posters on the other forums - I do this for a living (build walk in showers and barrier free bathrooms). I also do about 70% permitted work and 30% non permitted work so any and all work shots we share most likely have been inspected by the city of Vancouver, City of North Vancouver, UEL, City of Burnaby or the District of North Vancouver. Many offer up advice online, ask for pictures and a business name.

JW