Bad Iron problem, what to do

Gary Slusser · Jul 19, 2008

Mikey said:
One question of general interest, though might be: How is the pellet system metered? My liquid system pumps chlorine whenever the well pump runs, so it tends to overchlorinate when we're doing a lot of outside work.

First it is not a pellet dropper as Andy seems to think it is; proving he is speaking about something he has no knowledge of.

My system is not "metered" and neither is a pellet dropper and it only adds chlorine when the pump is off. If you set the dose per my instructions you and your water will be fine.

Cue777, IMO running so much water is pulling your well down far enough to allow a seam/strata/vein to run rusty or possibly muddy because the water runs into the well faster when it is free flowing as opposed to entering into the water in the well when the water level is above that area.

So test the discolored water for iron and see how much you have, if it is iron.

Colloidal iron is hard to impossible to filter. IMO you don't have that or the well water would always be discolored.

Cue777 · Jul 20, 2008

I tested it with the strips from Lowes, they show 5ppm Iron.

Also, what are the specs of the Centaur Carbon filter as that item is not on your site?

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Gary Slusser · Jul 20, 2008

What "specs" are you talking about? The carbon filter comes in various sizes so the specs are for the correct size based on the family size, number of bathrooms and type of fixtures you have. I went over all that with you on the phone.

The 5 ppm of iron proves you don't have mud but, did you run the water from the well and then back into the well with a garden hose when you shocked it? If not chlorine will settle out of the water to the bottom of the well, under the pump's inlet and may explain why the water is clear until you pump off a lot of water.

Cue777 · Jul 20, 2008

Yes, I told you on the phone I ran the hose into the well for over an hour after adding the Chlorine to circulate it.

The specs I am looking for are on the size of the Carbon filter you recommended to me.

Example

http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=645&cat=339&page=1

and the specs on this one are

# 10x44 resin tank
# 1.0 cubic feet of resin
# 5 gpm service flow rate
# 4.5 gpm backwash flow rate
# Floor Space Required is 11x14x51
# Shipping Weight is 90 lbs

So can you replace the specs on the table listed above with the one you recommended for me so I can compare and know what I am buying?

Gary Slusser · Jul 20, 2008

I have found that OPW does not properly size equipment, as you see they say 5 gpm SFR, and that may not be the constant SFR, it may be the SFR @ 15 psi drop across the filter; that's what they and most other dealers give their prospective customer when asked about flow rates. As I told you on the phone, I suggest a 1.5' with a Clack WS-1 control valve.

Cue777 · Jul 20, 2008

OK, so this one then correct?

http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=21523&cat=339&page=1

ecpgroup · Jul 20, 2008

so what is the iron then? if no body knows how the hell are you surposed to treat it. have a lab do a full report and test water not just on site test. an inderpendent report. if its not iron bacteria the mg filter will work fine. but seeing as though all you want to do is keep using chlorine then go ahead. it is a very bad chemical and leads to all sorts of other problems.
regards max

Gary Slusser · Jul 20, 2008

The water treatment industry has been trying to get rid of manganese greensand filters for years because potassium permanganate is used to regenerate it. PP is a serious poison but Max, chlorine is nowhere near as bad.

If there is enough IRB, it can prevent a greensand filter from working.

ecpgroup · Jul 21, 2008

yes potassium is very bad its my last choice of filter. if the Ph was not so bad then i would not try it. i would use a continuous aeration unit.

does the iron settle in glass in left for hrs? whats the water taste like very iron rich?

regards max

Cue777 · Jul 21, 2008

Cue777 said:
OK, so this one then correct?

http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=21523&cat=339&page=1

Gary, is that the one you were referring to??

What do you guys think about the Terminator Air Oxidizer? Supposedly it will Oxidize and remove the Iron by injecting air and it also raises the PH with Calcium filter I believe it was.

Cue777 · Jul 22, 2008

Did everyone leave?

2 more companies came out today to test the water.

One got 5.5 PH the other 6 PH
4-5PPM Iron
30 TDS from one and 60 TDS from the other
1 grain hardness.

One was a Kinetico rep and put some of my brown water thru his filter and it was clean, just not paying 6K for their equip they wanted to install thats for sure.

ecpgroup · Jul 23, 2008

see how much difference between the hand held tests! a Ph of 6 is not so bad. i would then use a continuous aerating mixed bed filter with Ph and sirm (brim in USA). out of interest what system was the kinetico one? have you had a manganese reading taken?

regards max

Cue777 · Jul 23, 2008

The Kinetico system they recommended is the 2060F
Nobody tested for Manganese.

Cue777 · Jul 23, 2008

Guess nobody is familiar with air oxidation then?

Cue777 · Jul 24, 2008

All of the plumbing is PVC so not much to damage other than the appliances, but I plan on correcting the PH as well. One bid is for a Acid Neutralizer, then air injection then to a custom Water softener to remove the Iron. I guess the Softener is supposed to be the retention tank.

Gary Slusser · Jul 24, 2008

ecpgroup said:
see how much difference between the hand held tests! a Ph of 6 is not so bad. i would then use a continuous aerating mixed bed filter with Ph and sirm (brim in USA). out of interest what system was the kinetico one? have you had a manganese reading taken?

regards max

A 6.0 pH is low (a 100 times more acidic than a 7.0 pH) and will eat metals in the plumbing system and a pH of 5.7 is much lower and requires a mixed bed AN mineral filter or solution feeder. A mixed bed turbidity filter using some calcite along with the rest of the minerals will not raise either pH sufficiently.

Aeration on this amount of iron will not work and will cause the water line after the injector to block up with rust in as little as a couple weeks. That prevents any filter from backwashing properly and it will fail. Birm or an AN filter with IRB present may not work very long.

You must kill all reducing types of bacteria IF there is enough to cause problems.

Cue777 · Jul 24, 2008

Gary Slusser said:
A 6.0 pH is low (a 100 times more acidic than a 7.0 pH) and will eat metals in the plumbing system and a pH of 5.7 is much lower and requires a mixed bed AN mineral filter or solution feeder. A mixed bed turbidity filter using some calcite along with the rest of the minerals will not raise either pH sufficiently.

Aeration on this amount of iron will not work and will cause the water line after the injector to block up with rust in as little as a couple weeks. That prevents any filter from backwashing properly and it will fail. Birm or an AN filter with IRB present may not work very long.

You must kill all reducing types of bacteria IF there is enough to cause problems.

You still have not answered my question I asked twice in my last posts about the Carbon Filter.

OK, I do not have Iron Bacteria, that is gone now. All I have is 4-5PPM Red water iron so it is already Oxidized, they were just recommending the air oxidization to get rid of any more Clear water Iron there may be, but there doesn't seem to be much. The Kinetico guy ran my water thru their filter and it reduced the Iron to less than .5ppm.

Gary Slusser · Jul 24, 2008

I've answered all your questions about my equipment and I've told you what I know about your other choices.

You can not have ferric iron, rust, without having ferrous iron coming into the well with the recovery water or out of the drop pipe and other plumbing from the well etc.. The same for IRB, once it is in a well, it does not go away permanently because you shocked the well once or more. And you told me in our phone conversation that there was slime in the toilet tanks.

And you can not pump of the water containing the chlorine below the inlet of the pump and with the pool chlorine you used, that water will probably still have chlorine in it oxidizing ferrous iron in the water under the pump inlet. Chlorinated water, and bleach, has a higher viscosity than water, so the chlorine lays in the bottom of the well until it is used up by the demand for chlorine. That includes everything that can be oxidized or killed by chlorine.

You need to select someone, me or someone else and trust them to be able to correct your water quality problems. If someone sounds as if they know more about this stuff than I do, you should buy from them.

Cue777 · Jul 24, 2008

Cue777 said:
OK, so this one then correct?

http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=21523&cat=339&page=1

I asked if this is the Carbon filter you were recommending and got no answer.

There is no Chlorine in the well anymore, 3 people have tested for it before doing the other tests. I had Oxidized Iron before I ever Chlorinated the well, I just didn't know what it was called at that time.

The Ferrous Iron must be Oxidizing from the exposure to air in the well, if it wasn't wouldn't everyone in the world have only clearwater Ferrous Iron coming out of their Faucets? They don't from what I have read and people I have talked to.

Gary Slusser · Jul 24, 2008

The filter is similar. Mine has a few extras they charge for if they have them.

You can't sample the water below the pump's inlet and all waters contain some DO (dissolved oxygen) and it will convert ferrous to ferric iron, especially at the static water line but, unless you get a sample out of the well, you can't say the water is rusty in the well. The rust can be coming out of the pipes.

Here is a picture of a 1" PE drop pipe I pulled, all but full of rust. The customer's water was loading up my twin tank softener with rust and rusty water was throughout the building.

Bad Iron problem, what to do

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