I think I killed my shallow well

OK, my old shallow well was putting out 5 gpm with a little air mixed in, while designing my sprinkler system I got greedy and wanted more water so I put a new meyers hj100s 1hp jet pump on it and it didn't get much better, if at all. I pulled the old well pipe out of the ground and it was 38', water at 20-24', and 10' of pvc sand point at the end (pretty well clogged). I jetted a new casing and 1 1/4 x 6' pvc sand point into the same hole to the same depth and removed the casing. Finally primed after filling the pump case and 8' of horizontal pipe about 15 times but only got 1-2 gpm out of it. I'm getting really tired of throwing money at it but I don't know what to do. Do I need to develop it? Drive a new point in a new spot? I can buy a hand pump to develop it but it's nickel & diming me to death so far. (I left out all the B.S. details in between). So...

New pump identical to the old one, new well pipe, new sand point, new brass check valve, all in a location proven to get 5 gpm but I get nothing. What do I do??? Thanks for all the help I got off the site already and any more you can provide. I think it's unconstitutional to PAY $1100 for an irrigation meter so you can PAY a little less for water/sewer, hope it doesn't come to that. Thanks again everyone

Steve

Oh yeah... is it worth it to try to pull the point up a little higher to try to find water?

$1100 for a meter is just the initial cost. Then you pay through the nose for every gallon after that. 20' to 24' is about the max depth a single pipe jet pump can do. You may need a 2 pipe jet or a submersible to work from that depth. Or you could just have a suction leak. A good well man might save you a lot of time and money.

well... what to do?

So I'm still stuck wondering if I should keep trying this. Am I better off trying to get water from the original well location with the new sand point, abandon it and try a new location (since I know there's water down there), or give up on the thought of a shallow well? Any thoughts? Thanks again

Also, what is the best sand point to use that's not too expensive? say under $100, At the hardware stores I see the PVC slotted ones and the steel perforated with the mesh inside.

Steve

update

I couldn't take it any more so I went and broke the well open again and re-measured. I'm down 36 feet with a 6' sand point and the last 13 feet is water. I'm off to find a hand pump to see if I can develop it a little before work. Wish me luck

Steve

If you are at sea level, you might be able to lift 23' with a shallow well jet pump. If you are not at sea level, I think you are going to need a deep well jet or a submersible. Speedbump or Sammyhydro could better help you with this one.

I just got back with the hand pump. I can get quite a bit of water up the pipe but not all the way to the top. When I remove the pump and check valve there's quite a bit of suction when it washes back down. I can run a garden hose throught it at about 8 gpm and eventuall it comes to the top. Maybe the sand point is clogged??? I stil think I'm too deep. Valveman, I'm at about 30' above sea level so I guess I would consider that sea level. I really really don't want to have to go with the irrigation meter but the thought of 15-20 gpm and never messing with a pump sure sounds nice.

Steve

15-20 GPM spinning a city meter can get expensive. Add up how much you will spend each month or year, and maintaining a pump may sound much better. Speedbump should be able to tell you what that Meyers pump can do.

Thanks for the advice valveman. I grew up on well water and deep in my mind I really hate paying for city water to drink much less water my lawn so that will be my last resort. What doesn't add up is the fact that i could get a decent amount of water out of it before with the same exact pump. maybe I'll try to drive a new one and see if there is a shallower water table. Is there a decent metal sandpoint available for under $100 or so? Care to chime in here speedbump? Thanks all

Steve

*** UPDATE *** new problem

Wow, it's been a while. My wife got on me to fill in the hole in our yard after abandoning the well/pump and our grass died. For the hell of it, I decided to reprime the pump and see what happens... I now have more water than I need. Don't ask me how, I haven't done anything. I took the new pump back and hooked the old one a while back. I now get about 12-14 GPM at 20 PSI.

New problem, My inlet and sometimes the outlet fittings keep melting/deforming/coming loose. I only assume it's overheating somehow. I got a new pressure switch after the first few melted fittings and it's still happening. The switch turns the pump off every time I can tell it's supposed to. Since I'm trying to push all this "new" water through a system designed for 4.5-5 GPM, will that cause it to overheat? I can't imagine it would. It used to run each zone at about 25-30 PSI and now it runs them at 40, switch set to shut off at 43-45ish. Pulled the case off the pump and the impeller is melted a little.

How can I tell if my impeller is causing my melting problem or if something else is causing the melting and that's what ruined the impeller. I'm never around when it breaks. I can run sprinklers for 3 hours and everything's fine and when it shuts off, it will hold pressure as long as I can ever tell.

Please help.......... Speedbump (Any chance you can get me an impeller for an older HJ100S)...???

Thanks,
Steve

I don't have that one in stock. It's usually the centrifugals that nuke, not the jets.

It would be my guess that you have a suction leak. Are you using the pressure switch and a tank or a sprinkler timer to turn on/off the pump?

I assume the check valve is at the pump which keeps the pump full but allows the casing to drain back when the pump is off. This is what will nuke fittings and impellers. If it can't catch a prime, in about 20 minutes you can fry eggs on your pump. This melts things pretty quickly. You could use a Hot Stop thermostat to keep the pump safe, but fixing the air leak would be the best thing. Is your well PVC?

bob...

Sorry, I guess I didn't give enough details. I have a 1 1/4" PVC all the way down, no casing, check valve is at the top of the well pipe and about 9' horizontal pipe from the check valve to the pump, angled downward. When I run the sprinklers, there's no air spurting out anymore like it used to and whenever I use water from it for anything else it always works, seems to catch a prime just fine, does this mean there's no leaks?. Anything else or any other way to check? I do have a small pressure tank and switch, both work fine whenever I'm watching. Like I said, It only happens when I'm not around so I can't watch it do whatever it's doing.

I pulled the snout off the pump, everything looks good except the impeller. The the plastic in between the outlet side of the vanes (outer edge) is warped in towards each other and there are a few cracks. Maybe I'll prime it, let it build pressure and cut off, kill power to it for a few hours, come back with a case of beer, turn it back on and watch & wait? Thanks for the help and any other ideas you can think of. I appreciate it.

Steve

Oh yeah, how much can I get a thermostat switch for? I was thinking of something like that.

I don't know if watching it will work, but the case of beer is a nice touch.

I have hot stop thermostats which can clamp on or screw into the pipes near the pump to sense hi temps and shut the pump down.

Someone just ordered another thermostat that does the same thing except it glues on. I don't have them anymore and for some reason they weren't removed from the Website. That wasn't you was it?

bob...

No, I haven't ordered anything. I still need an impeller. The local place sells them but I don't think they have them in stock either, I have to call them today. Do you have a means to get them?

I think I'll get the impeller but not run it until I can get a hot stop switch, It might not fix it but at least I won't burn anything up in the mean time. Thanks

Steve

Your pump isn't shutting off when you aren't looking!

Melted suction lines usually means that water isn't moving through your pump. This could be that your pressure switch isn't cutting off your pump when you aren't watching. The hot water temperature will cause your PVC fittings to shrink and leak or swell and sometimes burst. It can also deform the plastic parts in your pump.

A temperature cutoff switch is only a patch for the real problem.

My solution is to drink the case of beer slowly while watching the pump pump.

In some instances after a pump pumps for some time the water table drops and the pressure switch doesn't cut the pump off and melts the fittings on the pump. Pumps can generally stand a lot of heat but non moving water can heat up and melt everything.

Porky's right, and don't put your hand on the pump casting if that's the case. The temperature of boiling water can cause severe burns.

I can special order you the impeller, but there would be double freight since Myers (Pentair) won't drop ship anything. If I was going to be placing an order I could include it, but the way things are here, that may be some time.

bob...

First you should re-set the point. After time the sand around the point becomes just as clogged as the point itself. Second are asking a lot of a shallow well pump here. You need a convertable pump and the matching jet. Put the jet as far down the well as you can get it.

You need a convertable pump and the matching jet. Put the jet as far down the well as you can get it.
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He has a 1-1/4" well and no jets are available for them. He's kinda stuck with a shallow well jet pump.

bob...

Oh My... Must have missed that in his post. Well then, I guess whatever he does it will be a compromise. Still I would re-set the point anyway.

you should never install a single pipe jet assembly as far down a well as you can get it. It needs to be above the well screen in order to work properly.

sammy

www.tylerwellandpump.com