How does my new shallow well sound?

Just got done with my new well. Here are the stats:

11 foot deep
3 foot well screen
4 1/2 foot to static water level
1 1/4 supply
2 hp 2 stage goulds pump
2 gallon diaphram tank
15 gpm at 70 psi
pump shuts off at 85 psi
pump starts up at 60 psi

I plan to use it with an irrigation system.

How does it sound, do I need anything else, anything wrong with the set up?

I'm no expert...

But I'd say you're doing pretty darn good, that pump is WAY overkill, and how long can you pump 15 gpm from there? How much can you pump with no restriction on the outlet?

LUCKY!!!!

With that size tank you need an irrigation setup that will discharge the whole flow continuously without shutting off the pump.

You may have more pump than your well can support in a continuous manner, and it must operate continuously for the setup you have to work.

Bob NH said:

With that size tank you need an irrigation setup that will discharge the whole flow continuously without shutting off the pump.

You may have more pump than your well can support in a continuous manner, and it must operate continuously for the setup you have to work.

Click to expand...

These are both very good reasons this system needs a Cycle Stop Valve. It will allow you to set your irrigation to the amount the well will produce, while eliminating the rapid cycling of a system with a very small tank.

scubasteve said:

But I'd say you're doing pretty darn good, that pump is WAY overkill, and how long can you pump 15 gpm from there? How much can you pump with no restriction on the outlet?

LUCKY!!!!

Click to expand...

I've let it run for a hour non stop while filling a 750 gallon pond. The flow slowed down a little after about half way and the pressure dropped to 50 psi.
That's with an open garden hose. With 2 good size sprinklers hooked up it holds 80 psi for as long as they're on (2 hours is the longest i've ran the sprinklers)

The pump is a little on the big side, but I got a good deal I couldn't pass up. I got it new for $175, the guy had a "going out of business sale".

valveman said:

These are both very good reasons this system needs a Cycle Stop Valve. It will allow you to set your irrigation to the amount the well will produce, while eliminating the rapid cycling of a system with a very small tank.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what a cycle stop valve is or how it works.

My pump stays on when i'm using it, it doesn't cycle until I shut the water off. It gets close at 80 psi when sprinkling but it doesn't cycle.

I'm starting to think I really didn't need a tank......

Bob NH said:

With that size tank you need an irrigation setup that will discharge the whole flow continuously without shutting off the pump.

You may have more pump than your well can support in a continuous manner, and it must operate continuously for the setup you have to work.

Click to expand...

Since the pump is oversized for the well, will this shorten the life of the pump?

Also, it's a deep well pump. I have the bottom hole plugged instead of installing the shallow well conversion kit. The guy I bought it from said this was ok. By doing that am I reducing what the pump is capable of or hurting it?

Shall I install a shallow well kit?

15 gpm is good for an 1-1/4" well. Your pump is so far overkill it's rediculuous. I would sell it at a yard sale and put on a little 1/2hp single stage Jet Pump. It will run your two sprinklers if they are the Big Box variety.

How did you determine the 15 gpm?

bob...

speedbump said:

15 gpm is good for an 1-1/4" well. Your pump is so far overkill it's rediculuous. I would sell it at a yard sale and put on a little 1/2hp single stage Jet Pump. It will run your two sprinklers if they are the Big Box variety.

How did you determine the 15 gpm?

bob...

Click to expand...

Will a 1/2 horse run my 4 sprinkler zones (separately)? I have 5 heads per zone. My lot is a 1/3 acre. The two sprinklers i'm using are just to experiment with. I imagine the pressure will be quite a bit lower when i'm actually running the zones. I plan to hook up the whole system this weekend.

What is my pump capable of doing?? It has an 1 1/4" inlet and a 3/4" outlet

I determined the GPM by counting the gallons of water the well produces per minute.

From your description you are operating it as a 2-stage centrifugal without any jet.

You have a sort of calibration on the pump.

750 gallons in 60 minutes = 12.5 GPM with an open hose (but you haven't reported the pressure at the tank).

You report measuring 15 GPM. Since that is more than the 12.5 GPM with an open hose it suggests lower pressure at the pump discharge.

"2 good size sprinklers" at 80 psi is probably in the range of 8 GPM.

If you add one more of those sprinklers you will probably get down to around 50 psi and up to maybe 10 to 11 GPM.

Since you aren't getting enough pressure to shut off the pump with the switch there is no cycling to eliminate with a Cycle Stop Valve. All it can do in that case is drop the pressure a little and limit the flow.

Since the pump isn't cycling, and the pressure is within the limits of the pump, there is nothing to significantly worsen the life of the pump.

You just need to keep the flow high enough to avoid cycling.

Bob NH said:

From your description you are operating it as a 2-stage centrifugal without any jet.

You have a sort of calibration on the pump.

750 gallons in 60 minutes = 12.5 GPM with an open hose (but you haven't reported the pressure at the tank).

You report measuring 15 GPM. Since that is more than the 12.5 GPM with an open hose it suggests lower pressure at the pump discharge.

"2 good size sprinklers" at 80 psi is probably in the range of 8 GPM.

If you add one more of those sprinklers you will probably get down to around 50 psi and up to maybe 10 to 11 GPM.

Since you aren't getting enough pressure to shut off the pump with the switch there is no cycling to eliminate with a Cycle Stop Valve. All it can do in that case is drop the pressure a little and limit the flow.

Since the pump isn't cycling, and the pressure is within the limits of the pump, there is nothing to significantly worsen the life of the pump.

You just need to keep the flow high enough to avoid cycling.

Click to expand...

The 15 GPM is during the first 20 mins or so, then the flow slows down... I guess the better way of saying it would be 750 GPH

I have a pressure gauge right under the tank, wouldn't this be tank pressure? Other than that, the tank was already pressurized when I bought it.

Do you recommend a jet kit or is it ok with the bottom hole plugged?

I should have my irrigation system hooked up this weekend, i'll let you guys know how it goes.....

Thanks, you've been very helpful.

You said you had 15 gpm @ 70 psi. I seriously doubt that Goulds Pump can do 15 gpm at 70 psi. 70 psi is probably the shut off head for that Pump.

I can't understand why you would exchange a cheap price on a way too large Pump for an Electric Bill that is going to be such a big surprise at the end of the month.

bob...

speedbump said:

You said you had 15 gpm @ 70 psi. I seriously doubt that Goulds Pump can do 15 gpm at 70 psi. 70 psi is probably the shut off head for that Pump.

I can't understand why you would exchange a cheap price on a way too large Pump for an Electric Bill that is going to be such a big surprise at the end of the month.

bob...

Click to expand...

The pump shuts off at 85 psi. Everything else is true, you can doubt it all you want, those are facts....

My calculations tell me that if I run the pump for 2 hours a day it'll cost about $12 a month. Don't know about you, but 12 bucks aint much to me. Sure beats a $225 water bill, and I like the fact I have the best pump made. The entire well project should pay for itself within just a few months.

I can't argue the fact, since no Pump manufacturer publishes Curves that show how a Pump performs in a way that is not intended to be used. Plugging the bottom hole on a Jet Pump makes it an End Suction Pump. But if that were really the case, it would have different Impellers.

I do know that the same basic Pump in the Myers Brand will not make that kind of pressure and a two horse Pump is a two hores Pump. There is no majic about horsepower.

Basically I was trying to point out that no matter what that Pump cost you, it's still way too big, wrongly applied and hooked up in a manner it that it was not intended to be used.

The day before yesterday a lady come in with her "Installer" (Weekend Warrior) to buy a Jet Pump. They showed me the old Pump. An old (and I mean old) Flint and Walling Vertical Jet Pump. It had three holes in the bottom, one of which was plugged. I had to assume they had it hooked up as a deep well system. After a lot of questioning, it was determined that someone had hooked this Pump up to the suction pipe straight over a two inch well, no jet and the other two holes plugged. When I told her that doing so overloads motors, she said, well maybe that's why I had to buy so many motors for this Pump over the years. I simply agreed with her.

bob...

welljet52 said:

I like the fact I have the best pump made

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with the Goulds pump, however it is just another "me too" pump. They just want you to think it is the best pump available, so they can charge more. They have Race Cars and Corporate Jets to maintain you know.

speedbump said:

I can't argue the fact, since no Pump manufacturer publishes Curves that show how a Pump performs in a way that is not intended to be used. Plugging the bottom hole on a Jet Pump makes it an End Suction Pump. But if that were really the case, it would have different Impellers.

I do know that the same basic Pump in the Myers Brand will not make that kind of pressure and a two horse Pump is a two hores Pump. There is no majic about horsepower.

Basically I was trying to point out that no matter what that Pump cost you, it's still way too big, wrongly applied and hooked up in a manner it that it was not intended to be used.



bob...

Click to expand...

Bob,

So are you saying plugging the bottom hole could harm the pump or motor? I'll get a jet kit if needed.

When you say it's not capable of making the pressure I stated, are you talking about while the water is running or the shut off pressure?

I tested the irrigation system today with a garden hose ran from the pump. All zones worked great, my biggest zone with 6 heads pulled the pressure down to IIRC 75 psi. That will probably lower once I run 3/4 PVC instead of the hose.

I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but the pressure gauge is mounted below the tank thats just above the outlet on the pump.

I'll get some pics together, it might clear up any miscommunications

Yes plugging the hole can damage the Motor. That pump was designed to produce somewhere around 10 gpm from a Deep Well Jet system. That is to say that approximately 1/3rd of the water that is pushed up, is sent back down to feed the Jet in the Well to bring up more water. This restricts the Pumps ability to around 10 gpm. The second Impeller is there for making more pressure not pumping more water. The way your using it, you can get upwards of 40 gpm flowing through that Pump. This can and will overload the motor in that it wasn't designed to produce that much water. The more water a Pump moves, the harder the Motor has to work. In this case, your jumping it up past it's max amps and overheating it. PUtting the Shallow Well Jet on it, will restrict it back down. I don't know to what for sure but it will be more than running it with no jet.

bob...

speedbump said:

Yes plugging the hole can damage the Motor. That pump was designed to produce somewhere around 10 gpm from a Deep Well Jet system. That is to say that approximately 1/3rd of the water that is pushed up, is sent back down to feed the Jet in the Well to bring up more water. This restricts the Pumps ability to around 10 gpm. The second Impeller is there for making more pressure not pumping more water. The way your using it, you can get upwards of 40 gpm flowing through that Pump. This can and will overload the motor in that it wasn't designed to produce that much water. The more water a Pump moves, the harder the Motor has to work. In this case, your jumping it up past it's max amps and overheating it. PUtting the Shallow Well Jet on it, will restrict it back down. I don't know to what for sure but it will be more than running it with no jet.

bob...

Click to expand...

I checked the amps and it's pulling about 1 amp less than the tag states for running amps.

Besides start up, it never goes over the amp rating.

That may be because your not using enough water yet.

bob...

speedbump said:

That may be because your not using enough water yet.

bob...

Click to expand...

Well, I've got the pipe layed out, just need to glue it together and drop in in the trench. I'll have it done today, i'll test it and let you know. It's hard getting anything done here with the heat. I can work for about 10 mins then have to take a break.

You know, for a 2 hp, 2 stage pump i figured the outlet would be bigger than 3/4". I was at lowes today and looked at a 3/4 hp pump that had a 1" oulet.