Comment on Toto and a question

[Sanz]

A comment first....bought a Toto Nexus, elongated for a powder room remodel around 2 years ago. Best toilet ever! Will definitely stay with Toto when we redo our bath. It flushes wonderfully and if it happens to look soiled, we'll flush once more to really clean it out. The only problem we have had with the Toto is the handle, which loosens up from time to time and I have to tighten the plastic nut inside.

A question....having a problem choosing a toilet for an elderly family member. Remodeling a garage into a first floor bedroom and bath for her (by long distance...if that isn't fun). I would get her a Toto in an instant, but she does not like change or spending money. She's in a small town and I can purchase through a Home Depot there, but I'm not sure whether to go for the American Standard Cadet 3 or not. She has problems now with her old toilet plugging and overflowing and calls me three times a day when it happens. I'd like to avoid that problem. I suppose I could have a Toto shipped there and not let her know the price! But I'm not sure the plumber would know the Toto or find it too "different" to install. Would appreciate any comments or suggestions.


TOTO Nexus

[Mikey]

But I'm not sure the plumber would know the Toto or find it too "different" to install.

Any plumber who found it too "different" to install should have his license revoked.

Shipping a toilet is mildly controversial. I've ordered 2 Toto Drakes over the Internet, both were shipped by FedEx (free shipping), both arrived in fine shape, were installed by an amateur (me), and are working fine. Terry has had some bad experiences shipping toilets.

Read the threads here about the Cadet 3; it looks to me to be a gamble, but one whose odds are improving (in your favor). If your plumber is really good, inspects the toilet on delivery for weird defects that people have talked about, and installs it carefully, you should be OK.

Whatever you get, I wholeheartedly recommend ADA, "right-height", or "comfort-height" bowls, senior citizen or not, and be sure to put in the blocking for grab bars when you build the walls. We did all that in both our baths, and am not too proud to say I love the height and the grab bars, although I don't yet qualify for a handicapped parking sticker.

[Terry]

The Nexus that you have, uses an adapter at the floor, for the skirted base.
Other models from Toto, like the drake, are just standard issue installations.
Pull the bowl from the box, and stick it on the wax.
Either the Cadet3 or the Drake will be an improvement over what she has.
I've been selling the round front Drake for $219.99
If you go to Toto's web site, they have a dealer locator.


Toto Drake

[jadnashua]

Any plumber worth his salt should be able to install a Toto toilet. Most install just like nearly every other toilet out there. There are a couple that have some differences - the Aquia and those that use the UniFIt adapter, but all of the others are no different.

I bought two Drakes for my mother...different times, and the last one was ADA height. The original one I bought was installed downstairs, and I moved it upstairs (where she doesn't go that often) so the ADA version was where she goes normally. The slight additional height is noticeable, and does make it easier to get up and down. Many of those in public bathrooms are ADA height.

Doing this from remote, I would not buy a Cadet...too big a chance of a defect. It might cost two trips or more for a plumber to get one that worked, and defeat any savings you may have. Read the comments here, then decide. Use the search function.

[Gary Swart]

If you have any questions about American Standard, just peruse the forum. The pro plumber that frequent this forum will not AS unless they are owner-furnished because of the many quality issues with them. The toilet I would recommend for your friend is the Toto Drake. As far as the installation, the Drake installs exactly like any other toilet. Terry does recommend sanding around the mounting bolt holes just to insure a good seal, but that would likely be wise for any brand of toilet. I would stress to you friend that this is a toilet that does not clog and will give her a lifetime of good performance without costly repairs. Even if eventually a new fill valve is needed, they are inexpensive and readily available. Big Box stores are noted for selling factory seconds and no-name builder models and not the better quality products. Point out that if her toilet clogs when you are out of town, she would end up paying a plumber more in one service call than the difference in price between the AS and the Toto.

[achutch]

As an owner and user of a Toto Drake and AS Cadet 3, I can vouch for both on their performance. Both are better performers than any 5 or 3.5 gallon toilets I've had, and are equal in performance (actually better because they use less water) than the 7 gallon antiques in my summer cabin. They don't plug up, they don't shred paper, they don't spit back "floaters", and they rinse well.

BUT, if you are helping your friend over a long distance, the advice to spend the extra money and go with Toto is what I would take. My Toto came out of the box with no flaws. It has been in place for almost 3 years without any sign of trouble. I had to make two trips back to HD to exchange two defective Cadet 3 bowls, and it involved opening several boxes before I found one that was acceptable.

In my case I bought the Cadet 3 only to save some money so I could add one accessory to my half bath which cost more than the Cadet 3 itself. As long as the Cadet 3 performs, it will stay. If parts inside the tank fail (flapper), and if replacement parts become difficult or expensive to obtain, then it will be replaced with another Toto.

achutch

[adenwork2]

I had to make two trips back to HD to exchange two defective Cadet 3 bowls, and it involved opening several boxes before I found one that was acceptable.

I would rather get Toto, but due to lack of space and 10" rough in, I might have to get one Cadet 3 RF.

What kind of defects would you look for if you had to get an American Std.? Is it just simple visual inspection for cracks and surface flaws or is there something special to inspect? Thanks for your help.

[Sanz]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I will probably go with the Drake, comfort height for her. Wish we could buy from Terry, but looks like his sales are for the WA area only. I will take your suggestion, Terry, and look at the Toto website. BTW, the plumber who installed our Nexus said something like, "what the heck is this and where did you get it" when he first saw it. He grumbled through the entire installation. And at the end he still thought I should have purchased American Standard or Kohler. I'm sure glad I did my research on this site first! Guess he doesn't like change either!

[Gary Swart]

Defect in AS? Look at the archives. Some are not level and some have flaws in the bowl. I just checked my Toto Dartmouth. It is set on a 12" (exactly) roughed in flange. The lid of the tank clears the wall by 1-3/4". That mean if your flange is 10-1/4" from the finished wall, you can use a 12" Toto. I believe the Drake is the same as the Dartmouth.

[Sanz]

This woman is around 5'1"....is the ADA compliant too tall for her? Her balance isn't great and wouldn't want her feet off the floor.

[Terry]

If you are asking about American Standard quality, and what to look for, you better just look the whole thing over.
Here is an example of what gets shipped from the American Standard factory.


American Standard Champion bowl

Notice that the clay was so warped, that they ran it through a grinder so it wouldn't rock. In the process, they overground the trapway and created a leak that they then patched with caulk, and shipped it.
What a nice surprise when it's installed, and the patch leaks.
This bowl is from an American Standard Champion.

[achutch]

I would rather get Toto, but due to lack of space and 10" rough in, I might have to get one Cadet 3 RF.

What kind of defects would you look for if you had to get an American Std.? Is it just simple visual inspection for cracks and surface flaws or is there something special to inspect? Thanks for your help.

The first defective bowl would not sit flat on the floor. If you look at Terry's photo of the defective Champion bowl, on a Cadet 3 further to the left between the middle and the bowl outlet, was a plate that protruded. When I pushed it along my tile floor in the front hallway, the protrusion dropped into the grout line and then the bowl was flat on the floor. Since my flange was sealed over with a plastic coffee can lid and duct tape (don't laugh LOL) because the toilet was going to be out a while while I painted, I didn't try the bowl there and opted to bring it back to the store. The fact that the box was opened when the HD attendant put it on the care should have alerted me to the fact that it had already been rejected by another customer.


The second bowl in an unopened box had a gross defect in the bottom bowl interior in the trap. It was a hideous seam that had not been smoothed over with a fired in blue stain. The plate underneath had been notched out so the bowl was flat on the floor. I was quite ugly by then and after I brought the second bowl back, I made them call a plumbing associate down to open every Cadet 3 box until I found one that was acceptable. He blocked the aisle and brought down a pallet load of them. Two boxes later, I found one I could accept, and that one is in place now.

If you can go with the Toto on this long distance job of yours, you can be assured that the type of problem mentioned above will not happen.

You had a question about ADA height and a 5'1" person. My guess is that the ADA height might be too tall. I'm 6'0" and have long legs, so ADA height is what I like. My two old (1950's) Eljer toilets here at the cabin are taller than most round bowls and have me seated at 16.25" and 16.5", though compared to my two ADA height models at home, they're not as comfortable, but better than the 14.5-15.0" on newer bowls made today!

TO THE PROS: I discovered this site and purchased my Toto Drake based on all of your advice, and I was not disappointed. I feel somewhat like a traitor having bought the Cadet 3 for my half bath knowing how most here feel about it. But at the time, there were several unrelated (and nasty) issues going on and money was very tight. That's why I opted for a little less quality to save money to complete the half bath "face lift".

achutch