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Thread: Well recovery rate

  1. #1
    DIY Member estone's Avatar
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    Default Well recovery rate

    You all have helped me a ton on this well already and I think I've about got it fine tuned. But I had a question about well recovery rates.
    I have a 1hp pump 10S10-15. Well at 256', pump at 240' and water at 40'. Switch at 40/60. CSV at 55psi. Sprinkler use.

    I have issues with nearly pumping my well off. I just don't see how it goes from 40 ft to 220ft. in 45min. So there's only about 400gal in my well to use in 45 min.?
    Anyway, I put different nossles on my heads to reduce the demand to 7.5gpm.
    I am running the well now for 8min/station (6stations), so 48min. At that point my pump starts cavitating and I'm assuming I'm nearly pumping my well off. I'm assuming the water level is near my pump?
    So I plan on running it for 5min/6 stations, so 30 min. total run time. I am pretty sure that will not bring my water level down so far.

    1. So if that works how long do you think until my well recovers until I can run my stations again? Or will that be able to be answered without trial and error?
    2. I also assume that cavitating is bad and the well should be shut off if I catch it doing that. Although I'm not getting air yet. Just not really any water.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    DIY Senior Member Mikebarone's Avatar
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    Default Pump saver?

    Do you have a pump saver on your well pump?

  3. #3
    DIY Member estone's Avatar
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    No,
    I'm not familiar with a well saver. What does it do?

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  5. #5
    DIY Member estone's Avatar
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    Would you all have a guesstimate on how long it would take for my well to recover back to it's 40ft. level? 1/2hour? 2hours? 6hours?

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    DIY Senior Member Mikebarone's Avatar
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    Default Pump saver....

    The pump saver I was talking about monitors the amps that your underground pump is drawing and it will pervert the well from pumping dry. (It also stops short cycling and improper voltage damage to the pump).
    How it works is, (after installing the unit in your control box) you give your water table time to stabilize at its highest level. Then you turn on your pump, you press a calibration button on the unit, and the unit will remember that amp draw. When the amp draw goes down to (I think itís 80% of the calibrated setting, it will shut off the pump and it will wait, (for what ever you want to set it toÖ.ie 60 min. 90 min.) and then it will try and run the pump again, till it gets to that 80% reading again.
    I think this would work for what you have, but you might have to extend the cycle times of you stations, and then fine tune the time, as you monitor you wells output with a pump saver on it. In my opinion, it would work better if you had a storage tank and a jet pump, so the pump saver could work 24 hours a day, building up water for you, and then you could use the water as you needed to. This is costly, so you may elect to go with the first option.

    Hope this helps,

    Mike.

    PS. If you need the web site for this pumps saver I can get it for you. Itís late and the info is out in my truck. You can shoot a private message to me, and Iíll get the site for you.

  7. #7
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Default

    There are a lot of so called "pump savers" on the market. They all do basically the same thing. However, very few if any of them will work with a CSV. The reason is that 1 HP pump will pull 9 amps when you are using 10-12 GPM. Then when only using 1 or 2 GPM, the CSV will reduce the power consumption of the pump to about 5 amps. Any of those "pump savers" that just has a button to hold while the unit is calibrating, and will only tolerate a 20 to 25% drop in amps, will think the well is dry when you are only using 2 GPM and the pump is only pulling 5 amps.

    The link I gave is to the Cycle Sensor. It has a completely adjustable under load. You will be able to see on the display that the pump uses from 9 to as low as 5 amps. Then you can set the under load to 4.5 amps. Then the device can tell the difference between an actual dry well condition and reduced energy consumption caused by the Cycle Stop Valve.

    With one of these devices and spacing out your irrigation demands, you can do everything from the well pump without the added expense and headaches of a storage tank and extra booster pump.

    I have two low producing wells where one makes 3 GPM and the other only has a 1 GPM recovery rate. I can irrigate from either of these wells. I just have to start early, stay late, and give the well some recovery time between zones.

  8. #8
    DIY Member estone's Avatar
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    Thanks!
    The cycle sensor I need lists around $335? What is the actual cost with shipping to area code 80723?

    1. So you set the cycle sensor at the aperage when I think it is about to start cavitating? 1gpm load during cavitation might be 4amps?

    2. How does it know that the well is back to its highest level

    2. Again, would you all have a guesstimate on how long it would take for my well to recover back to it's 40ft. level? 1/2hour? 2hours? 6hours?

  9. #9
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    If the amps drop to 4 when it is pumping air, then you need to set the current adjust to 4.5 amps. Since it will shut off anytime this happens you can start out with a small number in the restart delay like 30 minutes. If that doesn't give it enough time for the well to recover, then change it to 45 minutes. You will soon discover how long it will actually take to recover.
    Last edited by valveman; 10-27-2009 at 11:34 AM.

  10. #10
    DIY Senior Member Mikebarone's Avatar
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    Default Water level in the well....

    Here is something I do, just to get some kind of a visual of what the water table is doing as Iím pulling water out of it. It will require you to have (or barrow) a, ďclamp aroundĒ amp meter. (And from what Iíve heard about CSVs, you may not to be able to do this test if one is installed).
    Now you have to open up the control box to the well, or the power supply to the well, and because this procedure has to be done live, (live power) caution has to be taken not to get electrocuted.
    What I do is to imitate the same thing a pump saver does. I clamp the amp meter around one of the hot legs that power the well. I have already shut off the well for a while, so the water in the well casing, should be at its highest point. Then I will start the well pump, and write down every minute, the amp readings. When the water is high, the pump will spin faster and the amps will be higher. As the water drops, the amps will drop. You could do this test until you realize the water level is close to the pump. Then you could wait 15 minutes or so, and stat the pump up again. By the amp reading you get, you would then know approximately where the water level is at that time.
    Iím no pump/well expert, so if Iíve misguided you, I hope some of the experts out there will give some input on what Iíve stated.

    Good luck,

    Mike.

  11. #11
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Amps are a good way of telling the water level in the well. If you have a ball valve wide open the CSV will not effect the amp reading as the water level drops.

    This is also how the Cycle Sensor works. It has a digital display that shows you the amps. As I said earlier, you can see the amps drop from 9 to about 5 as the water level in the well gets lower. When the pump starts sucking air, you will see it drop to about 4 amps. If the CSV drops the amps to 5 when you are only using 1 GPM, and the amps drop to 4 when the well is dry, you simply set the Cycle Sensor to 4.5 amps. That is how the Cycle Sensor knows the difference between the energy saving benefits of the CSV at reduced flow, and the well actually being dry.

    BTW, the pump spins the same 3450 RPM regardless of the water level. It is the volume of water being pumped that determines the amp draw.

  12. #12
    DIY Senior Member Mikebarone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post

    BTW, the pump spins the same 3450 RPM regardless of the water level. It is the volume of water being pumped that determines the amp draw.
    Thanks for the correction!

    Mike

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member dbyers's Avatar
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    Default Well Recovery Long

    I have a well on my property that has been sitting for aprox 15-20 years. I started pumping it and its storage has improved by 50%. The big question is it takes about 30hr to fully recover. Is this well shot? Or, is there something I can do to fix it. I have pumped it out about 20 times now. I am only at the location on the weekends, so it's hard to pump it everyday. The well is 160' with 85' static water.

    Thanks

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbyers View Post
    I have a well on my property that has been sitting for aprox 15-20 years. I started pumping it and its storage has improved by 50%. The big question is it takes about 30hr to fully recover. Is this well shot? Or, is there something I can do to fix it. I have pumped it out about 20 times now. I am only at the location on the weekends, so it's hard to pump it everyday. The well is 160' with 85' static water.

    Thanks
    I would not put a lot of money it it.

  15. #15
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    If it has steel casing, call Cotey Chemical and they can help you out.

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