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Thread: Basement plumbing layout

  1. #16
    Not a Master Plumber novicepiper's Avatar
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    Default Out of date images

    Any 'image referenced previous to posting 13 is now out of date). I think at the moment the general consensus is posting no 13 (images ) are the way to go with a few mods re salesdog and the input of redwood.

    thanks this is getting exciting now! i wonder if terry love will join in the debate
    Last edited by novicepiper; 05-03-2008 at 01:49 PM.

  2. #17
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    A bathroom sink is a lavatory, the toilet is a closet, and a tub is a tub. That's just the way we talk!

  3. #18
    Plumber krow's Avatar
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    I am by no means any kind of artist as you are, but here is a simple layout that may help. Check your local codes for sizing of your vents. In my area we can vent an entire bathroom with 1 1/2" pipe

    The Drawing below shows the wash basin drain and the tub drain wet venting the toilet
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  4. #19
    Not a Master Plumber novicepiper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    A bathroom sink is a lavatory, the toilet is a closet, and a tub is a tub. That's just the way we talk!
    Wow that certainly clears things up - thanks Jimbo

  5. #20
    Not a Master Plumber novicepiper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krow View Post
    I am by no means any kind of artist as you are, but here is a simple layout that may help. Check your local codes for sizing of your vents. In my area we can vent an entire bathroom with 1 1/2" pipe

    The Drawing below shows the wash basin drain and the tub drain wet venting the toilet
    Thanks for the input Krow - if everyone agrees on your sketch thats what I'll do.... I just presented my images the way i did cos i thought it would be really easy for you plumbers to understand (solid visual) rather than me try and mess about with a sketch on a knapkin or something - ill do a quick 3d layout of your proposal and post it back up later tonight.

    Thanks again Krow - your explanation re sketch is cool with me - I just needed someone to explain it with a visual cos i dont know all the tech stuff hence (what the hell is a lav) explained by jimbo.

    Novice piper

    Ps - I think thats what Redwood was saying!?
    Last edited by novicepiper; 05-03-2008 at 05:37 PM.

  6. #21
    Not a Master Plumber novicepiper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salesdog View Post
    I agree completely with this, except i would wet vent both the toilet and tub through the lav by using a 3x2 double y, you can bush down the tub side and run 1 1/2 inch pipe.

    that works fine but, now your toilet is not vented properly.

    connect the lav/tub line to the toilet arm and you got it.

    you can eliminate the relief vent before the lav if you want. its not required.

    If you want to tie in the tub, seperately to the blue pipe, then you vent it seperately. which is more work then its worth, just tie the lav and tub to the toilet arm and your done.

    Thanks to Krows drawing ( page 1) - your input now makes perfect sense - i will update the image ( on page 1 ) and let you all see it to check it out - im in canada so if anyone from canada could set me straight on the vent size that would be cool.

    thanks again Novice piper

  7. #22
    Plumber krow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by novicepiper View Post
    - im in canada so if anyone from canada could set me straight on the vent size that would be cool.
    I'm in Ontario Canada. 1 1/2" venting for your layout is fine across Canada


    BTW, in Canada, you cannot use a double wye on a horizontal run/drain (Just thought I would mention it)

  8. #23
    Not a Master Plumber novicepiper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krow View Post
    I am by no means any kind of artist as you are, but here is a simple layout that may help. Check your local codes for sizing of your vents. In my area we can vent an entire bathroom with 1 1/2" pipe

    The Drawing below shows the wash basin drain and the tub drain wet venting the toilet
    Is this ok?

    Thanks for the sketch Krow muchos appreciated - is the 3" to the 3rd floor tied in to the 4" stack correctly/position below the kitchen sink? & in turn is the kitchen sink tied in correctly to the 4" stack?

    Thanks Krow

    novicepiper
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    Last edited by novicepiper; 05-03-2008 at 09:24 PM.

  9. #24

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    Run your toilet back to the wall then vent it kind of like this...Hope you can see this.The toilet vent can be 2" If your waste is 4" that is fine.You had no sizing on your waste and vents.1 1/2 for your tub and lav (Uhhh sink.)waste, 1 1/4 for your tub and sink vents until they connect with the toilet vent.Could you post a pic. of the room and maybe the space below?



    Last edited by bombjay; 05-03-2008 at 11:21 PM. Reason: D'oh!

  10. #25
    Not a Master Plumber novicepiper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bombjay View Post
    Run your toilet back to the wall then vent it kind of like this...Hope you can see this.The toilet vent can be 2" If your waste is 4" that is fine.You had no sizing on your waste and vents.1 1/2 for your tub and lav (Uhhh sink.)waste, 1 1/4 for your tub and sink vents until they connect with the toilet vent.Could you post a pic. of the room and maybe the space below?



    could you send a larger pic if poss - i cant read your dims. I thought i had listed every pipe dim in the room via the left top coloured dots (4", 3" 2", 1.5"). I thought the layout was complete! as is re last image posting ------ please bare in mind, this is all done at the computer at the mo. the only pipe in that room at the mo is the main blue stack running vertical and then offset underground exactly as on image

    Thanks for your input - really appreciated Bombjay.

    PS The image is to scale in everyway I will update the image and include all measurements


    ROOM DIMENSIONS = 118" (9' 8") X 63" (5' 2") and 18" depth below ground level.
    Last edited by novicepiper; 05-04-2008 at 08:23 AM. Reason: room dimensions

  11. #26
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    What software do you use for those gorgeous drawings? If it could transform back and forth from 3D to the standard plumbing drawing format (like Krow did -- it's got a name but I forget what it is), that would be great.

    Are you a novice piper as in plumbing, or as in piping?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-D6iI_3LHE

    (This gets good about 1:20 into the clip. Who ever would have thought of harmonizing guitar and bagpipe?).

    Mikey

    Also a novice piper... (that's not me in the clip)

  12. #27
    Not a Master Plumber novicepiper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    What software do you use for those gorgeous drawings? If it could transform back and forth from 3D to the standard plumbing drawing format (like Krow did -- it's got a name but I forget what it is), that would be great.

    Are you a novice piper as in plumbing, or as in piping?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-D6iI_3LHE

    (This gets good about 1:20 into the clip. Who ever would have thought of harmonizing guitar and bagpipe?).

    Mikey

    Also a novice piper... (that's not me in the clip)
    Thanks for the vid - im neither a bag pipe player or plumber i just can sweat pipes and glue abs pipes together... that certainly does not qualify me for either as i dont know the theory behind venting, is it supposed to suck air in or act as a release for frontal air force and push air out of the way of on coming waste - i thought it was both - but I am probably sort of incorrect maybe.

    i do like the bag pipes and the guitar though - so thats acdc then - thats a first for me

    software 3d max - no idea what the software your talking about re schematics & 3d in one - if you find out let me know please

    thanks novicepiper
    Last edited by novicepiper; 05-04-2008 at 06:26 AM.

  13. #28
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    The main reason for venting (combined with fixture traps) is to prevent the infiltration of sewer gas (it's as bad as it sounds) into the living space.

    Imagine a fixture like a sink with a straight pipe going into a sewer. With no water in the drain pipe, the gases generated in the sewer have a clear path into the house. This would be bad . If you've ever used an outhouse or port-a-potty on a hot day, you have only a slight inkling of how bad it can be -- like fatal .

    So, the sink (and all other fixtures as well) have those "trap" thingies in their drains to keep (trap) a small puddle of water in them, sealing the pipe from the sewer. Toilets have a trap built in to the bowl -- a large part of the water used in the flush goes to refill the trap with nice clean water after all the poop has been washed downstream.

    However, if an upstream neighbor or fixture let go a large discharge, that frontal air pressure you mentioned might push the trapped water aside and burble sewer gas up into the sink. Bad . Or, when you drain the sink, or when any large slug of water going goes down the drain downstream from the sink, a low-pressure situation could be created and siphon the trap, draining enough water to destroy the seal. Bad .

    The vent system allows all the traps to remain in a pressure-neutral state, and not be siphoned, maintaining the seal. Good (big-grin smiley intended here, but prohibited by the system, which I just found out is limited to 4 images per message).
    Last edited by Mikey; 05-04-2008 at 06:40 AM.

  14. #29
    Not a Master Plumber novicepiper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    The main reason for venting (combined with fixture traps) is to prevent the infiltration of sewer gas (it's as bad as it sounds) into the living space.

    Imagine a fixture like a sink with a straight pipe going into a sewer. With no water in the drain pipe, the gases generated in the sewer have a clear path into the house. This would be bad . If you've ever used an outhouse or port-a-potty on a hot day, you have only a slight inkling of how bad it can be -- like fatal .

    So, the sink (and all other fixtures as well) have those "trap" thingies in their drains to keep (trap) a small puddle of water in them, sealing the pipe from the sewer. Toilets have a trap built in to the bowl -- a large part of the water used in the flush goes to refill the trap with nice clean water after all the poop has been washed downstream.

    However, if an upstream neighbor or fixture let go a large discharge, that frontal air pressure you mentioned might push the trapped water aside and burble sewer gas up into the sink. Bad . Or, when you drain the sink, or when any large slug of water going goes down the drain downstream from the sink, a low-pressure situation could be created and siphon the trap, draining enough water to destroy the seal. Bad .

    The vent system allows all the traps to remain in a pressure-neutral state, and not be siphoned, maintaining the seal. Good (big-grin smiley intended here, but prohibited by the system, which I just found out is limited to 4 images per message).
    Thanks Mikey that was a good explanation - i knew about the p trap water keeping poopie smells out etc - just not sure about the venting issue - but now i do have a clearer understanding... do you happen to know the meaning of life...and starbucks, whats that all about!
    Last edited by novicepiper; 05-04-2008 at 07:24 AM.

  15. #30
    Not a Master Plumber novicepiper's Avatar
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    Default venting - mikey

    So as i understand: and please correct me if im wrong

    1) large discharge of water from above could create positive pressure and push air through a p trap below - resulting in bubbles and poopy smells?

    2) large discharge of water from below could create negative pressure (vacuum) and suck air from a p trap above - resulting in siphoning and poopy smells?

    please see my little diagram-

    Q1) whats stops A and B from having positive and negative pressure on the kitchen sink?

    Q2) Will C affect any of the above floors?



    thanks novicepiper
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