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Thread: "Professional Grade" Price Pfister

  1. #1

    Default "Professional Grade" Price Pfister

    As a home builder (licensed 20+ years) I always purchase my plumbing products from plumbing suppliers.

    After an incident 10 years ago where a client accused me of gouging him for $40 door levers that he could get at the local big box home supply store for $7 less, we compared and were both shocked to find the brand and series the same, but subtle part number differences and a lot of plastic in the big box version.

    So I bought a PP faucet for my own bathroom the other day and noticed it had the "P" for professional grade on the box while the same product at 2 different big box retailers were missing the "p".

    I suspect that the WalMartization of these big box retailers has led them to "special" specifications. I've read the stories about Stihl vs WalMart and just read the threads about Bradford White (great u tube video!).

    Any anecdotal stories?

    BTW, after assembling the faucet bottom side, I was pretty shocked at what PP thinks will hold up for a reasonable about of time. Might be done with them also.... back to Grohe. (don't worry, hired a 25 year pro to finish the rest)

  2. #2
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking everyone wants the bottom dollar-quality dont count

    they are all having their faucets
    mass produced in China....

    Delta has everything made for the box stores
    in china ....and it is god awful junk

    Price fister is basically junk to begin with so i cant
    immagine how much worse it could be mad e in China.

  3. #3
    DIY Member tototalitarian's Avatar
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    Default OK, what do you recommend for a kitchen sink faucet?

    Looks like the pros dont like HD or LO's stuff.
    What models or brands do you stand by?
    Thanks
    I am in the market for a faucet
    Thanks Gents

  4. #4

    Default

    I know many companies make "commercial grade" products which you can't buy at a retail store. Like locksets which are $40 at a retail store - The same brand but commercial grade will cost $200. (Commercial grade is installed in businesses, schools, government buildings, etc. Lots of traffic through these doors!)

    And "pro" chainsaws are not to be found at retail stores. (Pro chainsaws are used 6 or 7 hours daily, consumer models might be used twice a year to saw one limb!)

    Same thing with business machines (computers, calculators, printers). The commercial grade products are not available at retail stores. (The keyboards on commercial business machines are designed to be pounded on for 8 hours a day - consumer models a few hours a week.)

    Basically commercial grade products are made to be used constantly on a daily basis and are built to stand up to this. The consumer products sold in retail stores are designed to not be used very often.

  5. #5
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Default It's the Consumer's Fault

    For always buying based on priced instead of quality.


    If it doesn't happen on product, it happens in services.


    That's why when I tell people to buy X brand water heater and they come back with Y brand, solely based on price, don't call me when Y brand from the big box store fails to meet expectations. You bought it, I just installed it.

    When customers call me and the first words they ask is price, they are NOT basing any financial decision on quality or reputation.


    So you the consumer got exactly what you resemble; sheep following the flock to better pricing before the guarantee of workmanship, quality and reputation.


    I stopped buying Delta faucets from the big box stores for this very reason. As much as I find Delta top notch in the plumbing industry, they've failed miserably to offer a product that stands above the rest when it comes to the products offered.

    The odds are these days that when I'm called to install a faucet from a big box store, it's a guarantee that it's going to be missing parts or leak or not work. Not always but the factor that it will is greater.

    So homeowners/consumers..........don't change your spending practices; the big box stores have you in the palm of their hand.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  6. #6
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
    (The keyboards on commercial business machines are designed to be pounded on for 8 hours a day - consumer models a few hours a week.)

    I've bought 5 keyboards since 2002 because of how much typing I do across the net. I don't think they make a commercial ergonomic keyboard (the kind that looks like a wave)


    If I had to work for someone and use a straight keyboard, I'd demand an ergonomic or cry disability discrimination. Wwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! milk!
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member taysan's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
    I know many companies make "commercial grade" products which you can't buy at a retail store. Like locksets which are $40 at a retail store - The same brand but commercial grade will cost $200. (Commercial grade is installed in businesses, schools, government buildings, etc. Lots of traffic through these doors!)

    And "pro" chainsaws are not to be found at retail stores. (Pro chainsaws are used 6 or 7 hours daily, consumer models might be used twice a year to saw one limb!)

    Same thing with business machines (computers, calculators, printers). The commercial grade products are not available at retail stores. (The keyboards on commercial business machines are designed to be pounded on for 8 hours a day - consumer models a few hours a week.)

    Basically commercial grade products are made to be used constantly on a daily basis and are built to stand up to this. The consumer products sold in retail stores are designed to not be used very often.
    I agree with everything except the bit about 'business machines'.

    Yes, there are industrial strength computers out there, but the computers/keyboards/calculators/printers sold to businesses are exactly the same as those sold to consumers, and anyone can buy any of them.

    There are high volume printers with duty cycles to match, but they don't differ from the same type of printer sold to consumers. If a consumer wants the high volume printer, they buy it.

    One Dell keyboard is the same as any other Dell keyboard. The only difference between Dell's Lattitude business-oriented notebook and their other consumer-oriented lines are certifications etc. Nothing to do with build quality, and anyone can buy either model if they choose.

    I work in the IT Dept. of a 30,000+ employee company, and the keyboard I'm typing this on is the same as the one I can buy for use at home for $20. The LCD monitor I'm looking at is the same as the one I have at home. No 'business' version of the product sold only to companies vs. a consumer-grade version of the same product sold to consumers.

  8. #8
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking Rugged.....What a novel idea this is ..........

    I just had a sudden brain strom...

    I have never even considered something so simple

    Instead of going to the Box stores and trying to "cheat"

    the plumber out of maybe 35 bucks he would make on the exact same faucet ...but in better PROFESSIONIAL GRADE....,

    why not just tell the plumber exactly what you want and
    ask the plumber to bring the high grade stuff to your home in the first place!!!!!

    ask the plumber for the total price for both the faucet and install and what warranty it will come with.....

    think of the gas you would be saveing



    No, I must be just dreaming......it cant be that simple.....
    to just pay the plumber a littel extra for the high end stuff...


    Its just not enough that they get a good product with a warranty,

    they got to feel like you have gotten the better
    of the plumber.....and gotten the best and the dog dirt " cheapest deal in town"


    when in reality they have stuck it in their own behinds...

  9. #9
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default faucet

    Not only have they gotten a dirt cheap deal, but they have also gotten the chance to warranty the faucet, so that ANY problem with it will give you the experience of either removing the faucet and exchanging it, or paying the plumber to do it, and then keep paying him while you go to HD or Lowes and exchange the faucet then bring it back, and continue paying as he installs the new one.

  10. #10
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking Hj...been there and done that too...

    yes I forgot that little quirk that happens

    when you install their faucet and it is
    bad from the get-go....

    just like you warned them about before you started the job.......

    they look at you like its your fault that the junk
    they bought is defective.....

    maybe if I "brow-beat" the faucet it will act right???

    then its .... are you going to give me a break here and
    wait around while I go get another faucet??

    wont you put this one for free??

  11. #11

    Default Missed the point

    No I really don't buy from HD or Lowes, but I was just looking for the significant differences that the part numbers point to. Maybe its just a plastic tail piece or something. The subtle part number stuff is close to consumer deception as far as I'm concerned.

    Last week I was looking at $100 sump pumps at HD - all plastic but with a 3 year warranty. Decided to screw it and wait until the plumber supply opened on Monday. Got a real pump, 1" standoff the bottom, would pass 1/2" solids, only 1 year warranty, but thats OK as my impression is it would last longer and my time was worth more than the warranty.

  12. #12
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bredian View Post
    No I really don't buy from HD or Lowes, but I was just looking for the significant differences that the part numbers point to. Maybe its just a plastic tail piece or something. The subtle part number stuff is close to consumer deception as far as I'm concerned.

    Last week I was looking at $100 sump pumps at HD - all plastic but with a 3 year warranty. Decided to screw it and wait until the plumber supply opened on Monday. Got a real pump, 1" standoff the bottom, would pass 1/2" solids, only 1 year warranty, but thats OK as my impression is it would last longer and my time was worth more than the warranty.


    Guilt by association! Charged! Found Guilty!



    It's okay though, we all do it.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  13. #13
    DIY Member Squ1rrel's Avatar
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    Default

    And people keep asking me why our products aren't available through retailers...Gee..I wonder...could it be we are avoiding the stigma of EEEEEVIL?(I work for a small manufacturer)

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