Can you sweat???

normal copper pipes to copper pipes with Epoxy lining in them?

I just bought a home and am renovating the kitchen.. After cutting off the supply pipes to the sink I noticed the pipes also have the epoxy lining in them.

1. Can I just go ahead and normally sweat normal copper pipes to the epoxy lined pipes with heat and solder?

2. Other than destroying the epoxy companies warranty (which would cost me $400 to transfer to my name. NOT GOING TO PAY THAT MONEY!) are there any other drawbacks to doing it the old fashioned way?? (Health or clog type of drawbacks...)

Thanks for the feedback!

balthomeown said:

1. Can I just go ahead and normally sweat normal copper pipes to the epoxy lined pipes with heat and saulder?

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I would be hesitant to solder epoxy-lined copper, for fear of melting the epoxy near the joint. It might not be a problem, but who knows where it would go and what it would do.

This sounds like the ideal situation for a Sharkbite coupler. No heat to melt the lining off the existing pipe, and you can transition to whatever material you want on the other side--new copper (yay) or PEX (ew) being the two most likely candidates.

Any clue why the last homeowners went to the expense to line the pipes? You could have aggressive water and it was cheaper than repiping with plastic pipes. Breaking that lining would likely expose that section to the aggressive water and be a likely point of failure.

jadnashua said:

Breaking that lining would likely expose that section to the aggressive water and be a likely point of failure.

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Too late--he already cut the pipe

That said, melting away some of the epoxy with the torch could enable water to intrude between the epoxy and the copper, causing further delamination. At a minimum, it would expose that specific area to corrosion or erosion.

Also, I just noticed the original poster said supply lines to the sink--is the whole point of this endeavor to install new shut-offs? If so, why not just use a compression shut-off on the existing stub of pipe?

Thanks for the responses.

Let me give you the information I have on the house and the area.

I like lists:

1. The house is actually a townhome in a community that went up in 1952. Many of the homes in this area have low water pressure.

2. I do not know why he did this but my thought is he heard about epoxy lining as a solution to the low water pressure problem. The gentleman is in his 80's and probably was sold on the idea as a good option instead of re-piping.

3. most of the house (plumbing to the first , main floor) is copper piping. the risers to the second floor are galvanized steel as well as the main service line coming into the house from the public supply.

4. I think my water pressure problem is due to the main line and not the lines in the house or so much the risers to the second floor.

5. the line that I cut off to the sink looked very smooth inside with the epoxy lining the whole circumference of the interior.

Now that I cut the sink lines off I need to be able to put new valves on them for the new fixtures and such. Don't ask me why I cut them off instead of just unscrewing above the valve. It was just bad advice... So, now I am trying to figure out what to do.

balthomeown said:

2. I do not know why he did this but my thought is he heard about epoxy lining as a solution to the low water pressure problem. The gentleman is in his 80's and probably was sold on the idea as a good option instead of re-piping.

Now that I cut the sink lines off I need to be able to put new valves on them for the new fixtures and such. Don't ask me why I cut them off instead of just unscrewing above the valve. It was just bad advice... So, now I am trying to figure out what to do.

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If the pipes were not undersized, and your water is not aggressive, I'd tend to believe that (2) was indeed the case.

If there's enough pipe accessible out of the wall or floor, lightly scuff the outside clean with plumber's roll or a tubing brush, install some nice quarter-turn compression shutoffs, and call it a day.

I would disregard the fact that the epoxy is there solder away. It probably is not very effective anyway. Anything that gets too hot will char and come off so it will mess up the water for a while.

Bob NH said:

I would disregard the fact that the epoxy is there solder away. It probably is not very effective anyway. Anything that gets too hot will char and come off so it will mess up the water for a while.

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Why risk melting an unknown goo into your water supply when alternatives without that risk are readily available? The biggest issue here isn't the effectiveness of the epoxy, but the effects of getting it nice and toasty in the water lines. Bad idea.

I don't know what the melting point of the stuff is (I looked up MSDS for a few different brands to see, but none listed the melting point, and the primary ingredient was listed as a trade secret), but I suspect it's lower than that of solder.

Printed circuit boards are made from epoxy. The solder used melts at lower temperature than the boards and i'm not sure that epoxies would melt so much as char.

I wouldn't sweat an epoxy lined pipe. I would either use a Sharkbite or, a compression fitting.

If you have cut the lines use a compression stop and you wont have to sweat anything...then use long (30" if necessary) supply lines.

If you need them longer you can use a couplings and make them any length you like.

I appreciate the help guys! There seems to be a lot of different answers from different people.

I'll probably stay away from the soldering as more people are saying compression fittings or shark bites. What is the advantage to a shark bite versus a commonly used compression fitting or visa versa?

A sharkbite is a push fitting that is approved for use inside walls where a compression fitting may not be used.

This is subject to approval by your local authorities.