redoing dryer 220

Mikept · Mar 25, 2008

While im messing with the panel i might as well redo my 220 dryer line. A long time ago a my parents had a friend install one for them. He used alot of used parts. Rather than use the last two knockouts and buy the right breaker he cut a hole in the sheetrock obove the panel and ran a little romex out to a box w/30A breaker he mounted on the wall above the recessed panel. Then he ran the 10/3 romex up the wall across the stairway ceilling down the other wall olonside the door frame then a few feet along the stairs trim and then over a distance across the basement ceiling to the cinderblock wall where it goes down through a piece of galvanized to a 10-30r. When the the incandescent hallway and stairway lights were replaced with 12" round flourescent ones on a grant, the wire was left hanging below the new much wider lights.

Its so UGLY. I dont know how bad it is code wise. The basement sheetrock ceiliing isnt finish, and the pipes are exposed so i dont care about that.
Thefinished stairsway area is so horribly ugly and the stapled romex is within easy hand reach on the wall. The box looks stupid. I wanted to paint that area soon. I want to get rid of that stupid box put the breaker in the panel, and maybe also reroute the 10/3 if i can make it better.

In the past i drilled a hole through the plywood at the the curled up edge of the vinyl floor at the top of the stairs and ran a cable wire through to a hole in the basement ceiling below. Im thinking that i might be able fish a wire throuth the sheetrock below the panel down to a hole in the basement ceilling, or if i cant do that(cinderblock, footers, etc??)) run conduit below the panel on the wall to another hole at the edge of the floor plywood and down to the hole in the ceiling below. Then i can just run it across the ceiling like before.

Is that okay to do? i mean Redo?

Mikept · Mar 26, 2008

any-one???

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

hj · Mar 26, 2008

wire

1. As long as you are doing it you should use the proper size wire, and #10 seems light for a range, unless it is just a cooktop. It should be 3(something), with ground feeding a 4 terminal outlet. If the wire is exposed dropping down from the enclosure, it should be in a conduit. Ideally it should be placed in holes through the joists, but you can get by with it on the bottom of them.

Mikept · Mar 26, 2008

Its a dryer so i think #10 is fine.

Alright thanks. I hope i can run it through teh wall below the panel and not drill hole at the edge of the floor and run it out and down through exposed condiut instead. The top of the stairs (first floor) is sheetrock but the wall below stairs level is cinderblock. I guess i'll see how i can do it.

I dont think im going to bother running conduit across the basment ceiling part. Its strange, the pipes hang below the joists 1"-6" so they just sheetrocked above the pipes. the pipes come through 2" rusty sleeve pipes in teh cinderblock one one neighbors side straight across to the other neighbors unit cinderblock side. the wiring for the ceiling lights is up in the ceiling, they only installed lighting down there ,no wall outlets.

JWelectric · Mar 26, 2008

mikept said:
one neighbors side straight across to the other neighbors unit cinderblock side.

Is this apartments???

Mikept · Mar 26, 2008

yea why? The people who run this place didnt care when we installed the funny looking 220 line originally, they wont care if i make it look much better, and thats if they even notice the change. I know them quiet well and are very friendly, though im appalled at how terible their repairs can be, they are the worst hacks.

JWelectric · Mar 26, 2008

mikept said:
yea why? .

And which state are you in?

Speedy Petey · Mar 27, 2008

mikept said:
yea why? The people who run this place didnt care when we installed the funny looking 220 line originally, they wont care if i make it look much better, and thats if they even notice the change.

Mike, you can justify this all you want.
FACT is, unless you are insured and qualified to do so, and in many places licensed, you should NOT be doing any electrical work anyplace you do not own and occupy.

Jadnashua · Mar 27, 2008

Case in point...where I live, only a licensed plumber or electrician can touch their related systems in a multifamily dwelling. If it is a single family home, the homeowner can pull a permit and do the work themselves, but not on a multifamily dwelling.

Mikept · Mar 30, 2008

I took the cover off the panel. Theres four large diameter Aluminum multistrand wires from the outside service breaker(70A). The range wires are solid aluminum. Everything else is copper.

When that guy installed another box instead of buying the right breaker for the panel he connected it to the panels main hot lugs. The #10 copper wires are under the big lugs with the big multistrand aluminum wires. Is that a Code Violation? Also the ground wire touched but wasnt really secured to with the other grounds. I doubt that makes much a difference though with dryer outlet being only a 3 prong.

JWelectric · Mar 30, 2008

mikept said:
Is that a Code Violation?

Not as much of a violation as you opening the panel on an apartment.

Speedy Petey · Mar 30, 2008

mikept said:
When that guy installed another box instead of buying the right breaker for the panel he connected it to the panels main hot lugs. The #10 copper wires are under the big lugs with the big multistrand aluminum wires. Is that a Code Violation? Also the ground wire touched but wasnt really secured to with the other grounds.

YES, these are serious violations, and you should have an electrician out to correct them.

Mikept · Mar 30, 2008

Why am i not surprised? Oh yea i remember why. I was much younger but i remember him working on the panel and there was a big pop and i saw sparks fly throught the air. I told bob that i thought there was a shutoff breaker outside near the meters and asked him if he wanted me to go out and turn it off. And then he sent me.

Why is it a violation, possible wire loosening from the different rates of thermal expansion between cu and al or loosening of a small singlestrand wire insdie a big lug or is it a possible corrosion thing??

Edit: something more scary to me. I opened the 3 prong dryer outlet. Bob didnt clamp the wires underneth the lug screws but under the head of the screws and on one side of the screw not even wrapped around the head which doesnt even have much clamping area and obsiously wasnt made for that.!!!! I'm not making this stuff up!!!

I guess i can be glad he used the right guage cable and breaker.

Mikept · Mar 30, 2008

jwelectric said:
Not as much of a violation as you opening the panel on an apartment.

So if i owned this and it was a condominium instead, would the wireing be the worse violation then?

JWelectric · Mar 30, 2008

mikept said:
So if i owned this and it was a condominium instead, would the wireing be the worse violation then?

Playing around in a panel in an apartment building is no joke. Something goes wrong it wouldn't matter if it was something you did or not it would be your little butt that would be in the sling.

Now go forth and prosper

Lakee911 · Mar 31, 2008

Double lugging is a no no and especially if it's copper and aluminum. Other than that, you would need to check to see if its in compliance with the tap rule, or even if it needs to be.

You could get in some serious trouble messing with the wiring in an apartment that you do not own. Any problems that happen, your fault or not, could be your responsibility.

You're better off getting a licensed electrician to document the violations and then in conjunction with your local municipality, ask the landlord to rectify the situation within 30 days.

Jason

Mikept · Mar 31, 2008

I believe it does violate the tap rule as well because of the exposed romex not being that protected. The present tap'ed wire is 3/7 the ampacity of the main breaker and only 6" long.
If i wasnt living here, picking out code violations might be alot more of a fun thing to do.

Mikept · Mar 31, 2008

I have another question. The original electricians attached the main aluminum ground wire to a lug screwed to the bottom of the box and twisted all teh small copper wires together and inserted into one big lug clamp screwed to the box further up. The al range doesnt have a ground. Did or does the one wire per clamp not apply to ground wires? I dont trust the original licensed electricians 100% after relizing they had a 20A breaker on a 15A dedicated 220v outlet. They also backstabed (legaly) alot of outlets.

Edit: unlicensed bob didnt add another wire inoto the ground lug for the sub he wraped it 1/4 turns on top of the others.

Edit: Also there is an washing machine outlet which was obviously installed by the previous tenants. Romex comming from a celing light across the sheetrock celing then down the cinderblock wall stapled to a board which is half falling off. Guess what that outlet for the washer is ungrounded acording to my surge protector. The wires is 14/2 with ground so i supect they didnt wire the outlet right when they installed it upside down.

Lakee911 · Apr 1, 2008

I'm recalling from memory, but I think it's 110.14(A) that requires terminals to indicate that it is rated for more than one conductor per screw. In other words, if it doesn't list a certain number per screw, then you can only use one.

Doesn't sound like that grounding thing is up to code either.

Jason

Enosez · Apr 1, 2008

I'll take ignore everyones advise and continue to risk my fellow tenants lives for $1000 Alex.

Limit your liabilities and get a licensed electrician in there before something bad happens.

redoing dryer 220

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