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Thread: Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage

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    Default Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090702/..._care_overhaul

    By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Writer Ricardo Alonso-zaldivar, Associated Press Writer Thu Jul 2, 7:03 pm ET
    WASHINGTON Americans who refuse to buy affordable medical coverage could be hit with fines of more than $1,000 under a health care overhaul bill unveiled Thursday by key Senate Democrats looking to fulfill President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.
    The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years. Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals.
    In a revamped health care system envisioned by lawmakers, people would be required to carry health insurance just like motorists must get auto coverage now. The government would provide subsidies for the poor and many middle-class families, but those who still refuse to sign up would face penalties.
    Called "shared responsibility payments," the fines would be set at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation.
    In 2008, employer-provided coverage averaged $12,680 a year for a family plan, and $4,704 for individual coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation's annual survey. Senate aides, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly, said the cost of the federal plan would be lower but declined to provide specifics.
    The legislation would exempt certain hardship cases from fines. The fines would be collected through the income tax system.
    The new proposals were released as Congress neared the end of a weeklong July 4 break, with lawmakers expected to quickly take up health care legislation when they return to Washington. With deepening divisions along partisan and ideological lines, the complex legislation faces an uncertain future.
    Obama wants a bill this year that would provide coverage to the nearly 50 million Americans who lack it and reduce medical costs.
    In a statement, Obama welcomed the legislation, saying it "reflects many of the principles I've laid out, such as reforms that will prohibit insurance companies from refusing coverage for people with pre-existing conditions and the concept of insurance exchanges where individuals can find affordable coverage if they lose their jobs, move or get sick."
    The Senate Health Education, Labor and Pensions bill also calls for a government-run insurance option to compete with private plans as well as a $750-per-worker annual fee on larger companies that do not offer coverage to employees.
    Sens. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., and Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said in a letter to colleagues that their revised plan would cost dramatically less than an earlier, incomplete proposal, and help show the way toward coverage for 97 percent of all Americans.
    In a conference call with reporters, Dodd said the revised bill had brought "historic reform of health care" closer. He said the bill's public option will bring coverage and benefit decisions driven "not by what generates the biggest profits, but by what works best for American families."
    The two senators said the Congressional Budget Office put the cost of the proposal at $611.4 billion over 10 years, down from $1 trillion two weeks ago.
    However, the total cost of legislation will rise considerably once provisions are added to subsidize health insurance for the poor through Medicaid. Those additions, needed to ensure coverage for nearly all U.S. residents, are being handled by a separate panel, the Senate Finance Committee. Bipartisan talks on the Finance panel aim to hold the overall price tag to $1 trillion.
    The Health Committee could complete its portion of the bill as soon as next week, and the presence of a government health insurance option virtually assures a party-line vote.
    In the Senate, the Finance Committee version of the bill is unlikely to include a government-run insurance option. Bipartisan negotiations are centered on a proposal for a nonprofit insurance cooperative as a competitor to private companies.
    Three committees are collaborating in the House on legislation expected to come to a vote by the end of July. That measure is certain to include a government-run insurance option.
    At their heart, all the bills would require insurance companies to sell coverage to any applicant, without charging higher premiums for pre-existing medical conditions. The poor and some middle-class families would qualify for government subsidies to help with the cost of coverage. The government's costs would be covered by a combination of higher taxes and cuts in projected Medicare and Medicaid spending.

  2. #2
    Radon Contractor and Water Treatment 99k's Avatar
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    Sounds like a wonderful idea ... if you can't afford it, we'll fine you $1,000. If they just went after the illegal aliens, they would take care of a huge percentage of uninsured. Your politicians at work ... screwing something else up

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    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    This is what happens when you keep refusing to have State-provided healthcare....crazy second-best solutions like this, trying to solve all the problems that a market "solution" in health care generates.

    The Government is better at deciding what healthcare you need than you. PERIOD. Young people will decline it, forgetting that oneday they will grow old and sick. And sick people can make me sick through infectious disease if they do not get / cannot afford treatment.

    So, I'll pay a little more tax to keep you healthly. And for your kids to go to school. That's just common sense. If you are healthly and your kids get better jobs then you/they will pay me back someday with their tax dollars. Healthy, clever people pay taxes. Stupid, ill people do not. And the Government has a role in making us remember that through providing these essential services.

    It's not rocket science.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 07-03-2009 at 04:17 AM.

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    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    If Obama (D) and his Congress (D) and now his fillerbuster proof Senate (D) want something they will have it...our saftey nets are gone until the next election / vote...that is unless the next election is like Irans just was... with electronic voting and a Chicago style presidency Obama may get the votes based on "Changes we can beleive in"

    If anyone could name 5 government programs that were run at less of a cost than private buisness can run them I might be in favor of it but health care is just a gigantic tax and when ever they need more $$$ they will just say "in order for us to take care of you we need more $$$..."

    If you think voter fraud can't happen it did way back in 1913, there is a book out called "The Law that Never Was" proving it...

    http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp

    2 men traveled to every state and received a sealed and verified copy from the secretary of each state showing the results of the vote on the 16th Ammendment...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen...s_Constitution

    guess what...it did not pass...but it is now law...and the Courts won't even allow evidence into court to show that it never passed...

    We are puppets and allowed only what the politicians want until we take matters into our own hands to correct it...but I am not sure if that day will ever come...

  5. #5
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    This is what happens when you keep refusing to have State-provided healthcare....crazy second-best solutions like this, trying to solve all the problems that a market "solution" in health care generates.

    The Government is better at deciding what healthcare you need than you. PERIOD. Young people will decline it, forgetting that oneday they will grow old and sick. And sick people can make me sick through infectious disease if they do not get / cannot afford treatment.

    So, I'll pay a little more tax to keep you healthly. And for your kids to go to school. That's just common sense. If you are healthly and your kids get better jobs then you/they will pay me back someday with their tax dollars. Healthy, clever people pay taxes. Stupid, ill people do not. And the Government has a role in making us remember that through providing these essential services.

    It's not rocket science.
    People from other countrys are pouring in to the US (if they can afford it) because the countrys that have health care can't provide it to the degree necessary...and the US wants to pattern it self after them ...

    Ian please go back to England and use their health care system...and hope you don't have a catasrrophic problem because they are now turning down people based on the cost of treatment...and hope that you don't need a treatment that you need to start next week because they might just tell you that there is a 6 month wait before you can start your life saving treatment...

    And tell me just 1 US government program thet they do better and cheaper than a private buisness...
    Last edited by Cass; 07-03-2009 at 04:50 AM.

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    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Yes, a good book. What do you think of this Red?
    lol.
    Last edited by Cookie; 07-03-2009 at 09:57 AM.

  8. #8
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking Free benefits ---their is always a catch........

    Quote Originally Posted by 99k View Post
    Sounds like a wonderful idea ... if you can't afford it, we'll fine you $1,000. If they just went after the illegal aliens, they would take care of a huge percentage of uninsured. Your politicians at work ... screwing something else up

    if they want to give everyone in the USA health care I have some great ideas..

    1. everyone wanting welfare benefits, health benefits ect....

    make it mandatory that they do a urine test to see if they are durg free...and they can only receive these health and welfare benefits if they can stay drug free

    2. people that are destroying their own bodies with Alchol, tobacco, drugs, obesity.....and yet they expect to get free benefits... I feel that they must go "cold turkey" on everything and start a physical fitness regime to maintain good health... if they want those freebies from uncle sam... again they got to do urine and blood tests.


    3.. outlaw tobacco, booze... fatty foods.... ect....
    Anything that will eventually kill you and force the government to pay your your bills should not be allowed.
    Or tax the living hell ou tof them to where it is too expensive to puchase...


    4 all illegal immigrants shoud not even be allowed in the emergency rooms, and if they are allowed to save their lives, they immediately get deported...






  9. #9
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking good information cass...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cass View Post
    If Obama (D) and his Congress (D) and now his fillerbuster proof Senate (D) want something they will have it...our saftey nets are gone until the next election / vote...that is unless the next election is like Irans just was... with electronic voting and a Chicago style presidency Obama may get the votes based on "Changes we can beleive in"

    If anyone could name 5 government programs that were run at less of a cost than private buisness can run them I might be in favor of it but health care is just a gigantic tax and when ever they need more $$$ they will just say "in order for us to take care of you we need more $$$..."

    If you think voter fraud can't happen it did way back in 1913, there is a book out called "The Law that Never Was" proving it...

    http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp

    2 men traveled to every state and received a sealed and verified copy from the secretary of each state showing the results of the vote on the 16th Ammendment...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen...s_Constitution

    guess what...it did not pass...but it is now law...and the Courts won't even allow evidence into court to show that it never passed...

    We are puppets and allowed only what the politicians want until we take matters into our own hands to correct it...but I am not sure if that day will ever come...
    that is a lot of good info
    our country was sold down the river a long time ago..
    everything is owned by people behind the scenes,
    IMHO basically the Federal Reserve owns the USA

    the Federal Reserve is not a government entity, its actually a "for profit bank" who has a monolpoy on printing our money out of thin air and selling it to the government... at interest......

    the IRS and income tax was invented to pay the interest
    on the debt the government owes to the Federal Reserve....


    find out who has controlling interest in the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK
    and you will know who runs our country......



    here is a 3 hour movie to watch ....



    This is all pretty interseting stuff if you like to see the history
    on how the banks took over america. and who owns us....


    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+masters&hl=en

    http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...3133004XtAkj6r#

  10. #10
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    I do not understand this concept that if you get ill, you (the individual) must pay for it. If I see a stranger that is sick, I want him to be well again so he can start paying taxes. Are you guys happy to see people sick so they can't pay taxes, just because it makes you mad because you're paying for his bad back?

    Why the heck do you think you pay taxes? Bridges...the ones that have been falling down? No, it's for things like health and education. The things that make a society a society.

    I agree the US has the best healthcare in the world but it is also by far the most expensive. And some countries with cheaper, state-provided healthcare are catching up fast and starting to provide better treatment for some diseases than here e.g. France. So watch out.

    Don't get me wrong. I have the best healthcare insurance money can buy in the US, provided by my employer. But having come from a state system I cannot believe that you guys put up with such a crazy system.

    Even though my insurance is creme-de-la-creme I have still had to write to my insurer to get clarification that they would pay before I got some treatments. This is ridiculous, and you guys put up with it. And then there are the $15 co-pays. Insane. Why should you have to pay when you've already paid!

    I blame the founding fathers for this and for the silly liquor rules. If I want to buy a bottle of whisky at a gas station on a Sunday morning then I should be able to do it. But oh no...

    Trust me when I say immigrants do not come here for the health care or the benefits. Because there are none. People come to the US for the money and the jobs, of which there are also none at the moment which is why some of the visa quotas (from India, for example) are not being filled.

    I have said it before and I will say it again. This is the best country in the world for the young, fit and clever. It is not for the old, sick and stupid. When I become old, sick and stupid, I'm taking my US pension and spending it somewhere else.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 07-03-2009 at 01:28 PM.

  11. #11
    In the Trades MaintenanceMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    I do not understand this concept that if you get ill, you (the individual) must pay for it. If I see a stranger that is sick, I want him to be well again so he can start paying taxes.
    Un-freaking-believable! It's startling what spoon fed socialism does to some people...

    And the fact that you blame the founding fathers for ANYTHING, is pretty ballsy I must say.

    Freedom is what this county is, or at least was, about. Not taxes, or entitlement. Not bailouts or stimulus bills. Certainly not big government or government run banks, auto companies, health care, a stifling bureaucracy or socialism.
    Last edited by MaintenanceMan; 07-03-2009 at 03:04 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    If you paid no tax here I might get it. But you almost pay as much tax here as anywhere else but you don't get free health care and in some areas you have to pay private to get your kids in a good school.

    That is a bummer and a bad deal. You are entitled because you pay taxes and you vote.

    Freedom is about freedom of speech, association and religion. It's never been about anything else. Which, again, is why I cannot buy whisky at the gas station as the sun rises on a Sunday morning, although I am allowed to complain about it!
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 07-03-2009 at 04:31 PM.

  13. #13
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    The reason you don't understand what freedome is is because you are blind in one eye and can't see out the other...

  14. #14
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    I was just trying to get some debate going on this hot topic...health.

    I love my life in the US and I am very privileged to be here. I have a great job, a great house and a great everything.

    But I cannot help notice those less fortunate than me. And many of those were born here in America, not just immigrants. They have awful access to health and awful access to education. I live in the DC suburbs. Either the schools are good and the house prices too high, or you live in an affordable area and pay for private. My house backs onto a hospital that is facing closure because the people going there are more often than not uninsured. And for the richest country in the world, that surprises me a great deal as a visitor here. It makes me feel sad and, sometimes, guilty.

    I could not have done as well as you in coping with your illness in America Cookie. I am sorry to say that. I could only have focused on getting well and would not have been able to deal with the financial pressures as well. My hat goes off to you.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 07-03-2009 at 05:58 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Nobody is denied health care in Europe Cookie, and they are not in Canada either. I am sorry to say that.

    The only differences here are that you pay a lot; might wait less time (life-threatening cases are seen first in Europe, here you can just turn up); and, there's more plush carpet in the surgery. Oh, and there is better parking in the US too.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 07-03-2009 at 06:07 PM.

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