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Thread: bit of confusion now...

  1. #1

    Default bit of confusion now...

    As per a previous thread i started re: re wireing

    Actually it should be grounding a un grounded house short of a complete re wire... Anyway what i mean by confusion is this..I have talked to several qualified,licensed,experienced etc. electricians.
    1. Some, say all receptacles in the dwelling need GFCI's,

    2.some say the first receptacle in each circuit needs a GFCI, wired in so it protects all other receps. downstream in that circuit.A sticker stating "No equipment ground" and visable also needs to be in place all receps.

    3. One electrician said it is wortless and a waste to try and acheieve a ground with GFCI's.

    I realize GFCI's may not give me a "proper ground" but as long as they make for safer wireing, and protects all equipment plugged into those receptacles and NEC recognizes it as acceptable code compliant etc. I am favoring the idea. Plus i am told the existing three prong outlets now in place can be kept as long as they are protected as mentioned above in 2.

  2. #2
    I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP) Lakee911's Avatar
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    Number 2 is the safest without a rewire (assuming you don't have metallic conduit). Putting some devices (such as a flourescent light) on a GFCI can lead to nuissence trips, in the case of number 2 it would shut off anything "downstream." My opinion...

    Jason

  3. #3
    Computer Systems Engineer jdoll42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solutions View Post
    1. Some, say all receptacles in the dwelling need GFCI's
    If you wire them in series properly, the first GFCI in the chain will protect anything that follows it.

    Quote Originally Posted by solutions View Post
    2.some say the first receptacle in each circuit needs a GFCI, wired in so it protects all other receps. downstream in that circuit. A sticker stating "No equipment ground" and visable also needs to be in place all receps.
    Bingo! Your GFCI's should also come with stickers that you can put on the outlets beyond the GFCI to indicate they are also GFCI protected.

    Quote Originally Posted by solutions View Post
    3. One electrician said it is wortless and a waste to try and acheieve a ground with GFCI's.
    I'm not an electrician, but don't GFCI's work off of the ground wire (GROUND fault circuit interrupter)? If none of the outlets have a ground wire, isn't the GFCI pretty much useless?

  4. #4

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    no they dont work with the ground this is a typical misconception. it detects ground faults by measureing the crurrent between the hot and neutral wire a difference of 4-6 miliamps will trip the gfci.

  5. #5
    Computer Systems Engineer jdoll42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pudge565 View Post
    no they dont work with the ground this is a typical misconception. it detects ground faults by measureing the crurrent between the hot and neutral wire a difference of 4-6 miliamps will trip the gfci.
    Ok. I get it now. It detects the current going to ground ELSEWHERE on the circuit instead of back through the neutral wire, thus the Ground Fault part. If the current on the hot wire doesn't match the current on the neutral wire, it's going somewhere it's not supposed to.

    Well you learn something new every day. Thanks for the clarification!
    Last edited by jdoll42; 03-18-2008 at 07:51 PM.

  6. #6
    Electrical Contractor jbfan74's Avatar
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    Also, putting in gfci's will not offer protection for your equipment!
    Yes I am A Pirate-Jimmy Buffett

  7. #7
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Some electronics use the ground wire to help shield or filter noise propagation or reception from interferring with things. A GFCI won't help that if there isn't a real ground, but from a safety viewpoint (i.e., to keep from getting shocked), they work great. Depends on what you are trying to do...a complete rewire is the better way to do things, but you'd probably find you need to add a bunch more outlets and maybe circuits, too and the costs can be quite high. You have to decide what good enough is...
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #8

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    GFCI will trip at 5 mili amps, not 4.

  9. #9
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ked View Post
    GFCI will trip at 5 mili amps, not 4.
    Wrong answer!

    GFCI can not trip at more than .005 amps but can trip at lower amperages. It will depend on who made it.

  10. #10
    Electrician Chris75's Avatar
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    FWIW, most home appliances are only two wire anyhow, so why not just replace your existing receptacles with two wire receptacles? Then either rewire or install GFCI's where you actually need a 3 wire receptacle.

  11. #11

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    Use GFCI breakers.

    You will save hours of trying to find out what feeds what.


    You still have no ground but you eliminate the chance of being hurt by a fault to ground.



    Most surge protectors wont work without a ground.

  12. #12

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    i believe that i read the 4-6 mili amp thing in mullins text residential wiring 15th edition not quite sure if it was or not i will check on tuesday wen i go back to tech.
    Last edited by pudge565; 03-23-2008 at 08:25 PM.

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