Fernco or FluidMaster floor seal

**yankee senior** · 03-08-2008, 03:11 PM

Thanks for having such a helpful forum. We are replacing a broken toilet with the Toto UltraMax after laying vinyl over quarter inch plywood. The flange is a bit below the flooring surface and we are trying to decide which type of seal would be easiest, safest to use, double wax, Fernco or the FluidMaster. I did read Terry's instructions for attaching the seal to the toilet rather than the floor. Since it seems they narrow the pipe a little, do the rubber seals have any affect on the flushing action of the toilet? What would you suggest we use.
Thanks
Yankee Senior

**jadnashua** · 03-08-2008, 05:06 PM

The interior trap on most toilets is in the order of 2" or a little over. Some are larger. The diameter of the waxless seals is probably not a restriction. I've had several in for years, and no issues. It would have been best to reset the flange on top of the finished floor where it is supposed to be. You could add an extender ring to bring it up, then use a standard wax ring.

**leo the lion** · 03-09-2008, 08:52 PM

I had to replace two toilets with wax rings. Replaced wax rings about every 7
years. Replaced wax rings with fluidmaster waxless. Steps taken to use fluidmaster.

1 Removed cast iron flanges rusted.

2 Replaced flooring water damage.

3 Used stainless steel ring with brass bolts.

4 Alined bolts to center of 4 inch cast iron drain.

5 Drilled wood dowels turned to fit slot width of toilet 1/4 inch dia. holes 1 inch deep slid dowels over bolts.

6 Pressed fluidmaster into 4 inch pipe so that seal was about 3/4 inch above floor.

7 Lifted toilet over dowels and set toilet down on seal. The toilet then shoved the seal down to tight fit on top of seal because I used an o-ring with tight fit into drain. No need to use crush paper.
The logic behind this install was that my father in law said all you need to know to be a plumber is that feces and urine stink and water flows down hill.

I checked to see if there was any water leakage by removing one nut on one side of toilet and shoved a dry rag strip into space between horn and edge of toilet came out dry.

Hope this helps some one.
leo the lion

**Redwood** · 03-09-2008, 10:05 PM

I would install a flange spacer ring to bring the flange up to the right height.

I use wax myself...

**leo the lion** · 03-09-2008, 11:05 PM

Cast iron flanges rusted out bolts would not hold and flanges too high would mash wax ring before toilet seated on floor.

After replacing wax rings for 42 years got tired of leaks. Also could smell urine around toilet.

leo the lion

**Redwood** · 03-10-2008, 12:00 AM

Toilets smelling of urine is more often caused by bad aim than anything else. Yellow water diluted with 1.6 gallons of water usually does not smell.

**Terry** · 03-10-2008, 09:49 AM

I press the Fluidmaster onto the bowl, and then drop the bowl into place.
This way, "I know" the seal is on the bowl.

**yankee senior** · 03-10-2008, 07:10 PM

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Of course we do understand now that the flange should be mounted on the finish floor but it's (the flange) only down a quarter inch from surface and this sounds like the type of situation that the FluidMaster was created for. I think we'll go with that; does the seal have a sticky surface where you press it on the toilet?
yankee senior

**leo the lion** · 03-10-2008, 07:23 PM

If the flange is below floor either put on flange extension or put fluidmaster on toilet horn first then set toilet on drain to insure that fluidmaster stays fully seated on horn.

leo the lion

**yankee senior** · 03-10-2008, 07:29 PM

Thanks Leo, I'll pass this on to the lifter! So it stays stuck on when you lift the toilet? Why is it called a horn?

**leo the lion** · 03-10-2008, 07:30 PM

Upper seal is smaller than toilet horn but no sticky stays on horn because the the hole in upper seal expands to form a funnel like fit to horn.

Sounds like a good use for guides on hold down bolts.

leo the lion

**leo the lion** · 03-10-2008, 07:33 PM

Beats me could have called it outlet funnel.

leo the lion

**keyonman** · 08-18-2009, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Terry

I press the Fluidmaster onto the bowl, and then drop the bowl into place.
This way, "I know" the seal is on the bowl.

After my tile installation, my floor flange is about 3/4 inche below the fisnished floor. I posted on another thread here and one of the suggestions was to use a fernco or a fluidmaster waxless kit. I bought the Fluidmaster 7500 and I was going to follow your installation as seen on the picture above.

I do have a question here: How critical is the fitting of the black O ring on the bottom of the bowl gasket to the pipe. The reason I ask is because the instructions says the O ring should roll into ( inside?) the drain pipe. Since there was the old flange glued into the inside of the pipe, the actual inside diameter maybe off by a little ( less than 3 inches). It is hard enough to try to install the bowl gasket assembly with the thin O ring inside the pipe as instructed on the installation kit. It will be next to impossible to do this if the bowl gasket was installed in the toilet horn first and then lowered into the pipe. The O ring might just slide up the bowl gasket base and not go inside the drain pipe. I don't know if I explained this correctly but hope you guys understand my question. Thanks again.

**Terry** · 08-18-2009, 12:58 PM

The weight of the bowl will answer that one.
It' tends to be rather pushy.

**keyonman** · 08-18-2009, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Terry

The weight of the bowl will answer that one.
It' tends to be rather pushy.

Sorry for my ignorance here but I did not quite understand your reply. So do I need to worry if the O ring does not actually go inside the pipe when I drop the toilet into the flange. BTW, I was using the Drake Toto which I think is similar to the one pictured. Thanks gain for such a quick reply.