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Thread: Toto Drake-my fear -not enough water....

  1. #1
    DIY Member tototalitarian's Avatar
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    Default Toto Drake-my fear -not enough water....

    Greetings,
    I have gone through verrry many toilet threads on this great site. Never thought I would be reading about toilets...have learned alot.
    My biggest concern about the Drake/Ultimate (same specs) is this....
    I just had to snake out the 4" drain line connecting the toilet.
    A two inch "solid matter" plugged it (it had never been snaked in 25 years).
    I am assuming that the blockage in the piple is now somewhat bigger than 2" since I snaked it and used a professional snake (w/1" cutter).

    The Drake "seems" to just drop enough water to clear the toilet.

    I envision that the toilet "solid waste" will pass the toilet, and sit not far from the toilet in the line, until the next flush, ...or someone uses the bathtub with adjoining waste line.
    So, I figure the solid waste sits part way down the waste line and eventually builds up (at any slight blockage in the 4" line) since there is far less water than had been used in the old style toilets.
    The toilet is approx 15 ft from the main waste T line and has another 15 ft to the main street sewage line.
    IS my fear unfounded ?
    Someone please convince me that the solid waste wont build up sitting in the sewer drain as it slowly travels to the main line(since 1.6 gal is not very much) , waiting for someone to use the bathtub.
    I am going to buy the "blue" flapper as suggested in another thread.
    Please Toilet 101 me on this.
    Thanks
    Tototalitarian

  2. #2
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    When was your home built?

    What type of pipe is the waste line? PVC, Cast iron, Copper?

    2" solid matter can't cause a stoppage in a 4" line normaly.

    You could have a belly in the line or it may have been a fluke.

    Modern toilets should not back up a drain line if they are in good shape and the pitch is correct.

    If you are very concerned you can have someone with a camera come and you can have the line inspected for problems, about $200.00 or so.

  3. #3
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    I would snake the line with a larger cutter... 1" doesn't Git-R-Done in a 3-4" pipe!

    As for the 1.6 GPF it will work unless you have an very old leaking pipe with a very long horizontal run.

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    DIY Member tototalitarian's Avatar
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    Default Specifics on the 4" line

    The house was built in 1963, is southern calif
    Cast Iron pipe waste.
    4"
    I used a pointed snake(motorized) first, followed by the 1" cutter, shaped like a "U" and kept in the suspected blocked area for a while back and forth.
    There was also a arc'ed knife (I think for roots) available, but I did not use it.

    Are you recommending I pull the toilet and re-snake it ?
    Not sure the rental place had a bigger snake "head".

    As in the previous email, there is a 15ft travel to the "T" that is the main drain and from there , there is a another 15 ft travel to the street sewer line.
    Your suggestions welcome.
    Thanks

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    My last place, it was 250 feet of 4" cast iron and clay pipe before it hit the city sewer.
    These things normally push out about 68 feet on the intitial push, then the next time someone flushes, it brings it out farther.
    Last edited by Terry; 03-01-2008 at 01:08 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member Lo Flo Joe's Avatar
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    Default Exactly why dual flush toilets make sense ,

    Your fear is not unfounded , I had the same concerns .
    That is why dual flush toilets make sense to me .
    Our dual flush valves have independent water volume controls ,
    We "dial-up" the number 2 flush volume so that a more adequate amount of water is drawn from the tank for a full sanitary flush when you need it.
    The small flush ( 80% of total flushes ) gets dialed-down for liquids and paper so you still save water in the end .
    We set-up a toilet testing station at our home and discovered that our vertical gate dual flush valves operate with considerably more power than the typical old style conventional flappers . The vertical gate design allows the water to exit the tank and enter the bowl more quickly than a conventional flapper resulting in a more powerfull flush.
    Dual flush is the law in Australia for a good reason , it just makes sense .
    Good luck , and may flushing find you in good health .

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member Nate R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    My last place, it was 250 feet before it hit the city sewer.
    These things normally push out about 68 feet on the intitial push, then the next time someone flushes, it brings it out farther.
    Huh? Where does this # come from? And I'm assuming 68 horizontal feet, then?

    Very interesting, as I think it's over 100 feet to my main line from the toilet. I know it's ~60 from the cleanout in the middle of the yard. I had thought about the fact that one toilet flush would not make it there, but never had seen a number put on how far that flush would go.

  8. #8
    DIY Member tototalitarian's Avatar
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    Smile Glad to hear I am not alone in the "Fear" department...

    Terry,
    I am in an analytical field and to hear your measurement of 68 ft makes me believe you guys actually took a camera to measure solid movement. Which, I assume you did. This is , of course on a clean, non obstructed , like new sewer line. Mine is over 40 yrs old cast iron. Just as I had some kind of fairly solid build up, probably at the juncture of the Toilet Pipe to the Main house line, I have to assume that my second toilet has some kind of "build up" over the years, so my line is probably not gonna go the 68 ft.

    Whats is strange, is that my second toilet , ( 1.6gal Briggs) will completely empty its tank. It has an adjustable flapper control which allows me to dial how long the flapper remains open and I "feel" better that there is enough water to get the "bolus" to its destination ....the main sewer line.

    Even if I hold down the Drake flush handle, it only seems to dribble water into the bowl. It sure would be good for me to somehow rig the Drake to continue to Forcefully send my "bolus" on its way.

    I can tell you guys that I have spent most of my time on my hobby sites which are audio related forums.
    I NEVER would have thought I would be spending the amount of time I have on threads related to toilets, butt.....I guess there is no depth to what can hold my fascination.

    I will report back the difference in volume between a RED and BLUE flapper valve on the Drake. Assuming I can locate one this morning at Lowes.
    Thanks Guys.

    "May the flush be with you"
    (a Star Wars phrase adaptation)
    : )

  9. #9
    DIY Senior Member Nate R's Avatar
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    Terry, if you did measure it, please fill us in on the specifics (Pipe age/type)

    Some of us think too much.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Here is a drain line study,

    http://www.cuwcc.org/toilet_fixtures...t_05-03-11.pdf

    Table 5: Waste Carry Distances (at 200g load)34
    Gravity – 75mm (3 in) Flush Valve
    3" pipe (80 ft) at 2% grade
    4" pipe (52 ft) at 2% grade
    The length of pipe for the test was 80 feet.
    Does this mean that there was no option to find out if waste would move over 80 feet?
    Last edited by Terry; 03-01-2008 at 03:18 PM.

  11. #11
    DIY Senior Member Nate R's Avatar
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    WOW, lots of data there. I will have to take some time to read through that. I did think about it some more, and I believe my toilet is 115 feet horizontally from the sewer main. I guess it would take several flushes for solids to make their way to the sewer main. Although the washing machine emptying and/or the tub emptying should wash the line clean, I'd hope. But the line goes to a 6" clay line at some point, which would slow everything down, of course.

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