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Thread: Lawsuit or Recall of Am,Standard Champion toilets ?

  1. #1

    Question Lawsuit or Recall of Am,Standard Champion toilets ?

    Has their been a class action lawsuit or recall of American Standard Champion toilets ?
    Last edited by Terry; 09-02-2012 at 08:41 AM. Reason: added link

  2. #2
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Your source for info is www.cpsc.gov

    I went there and seached toilets, found none. Searched American Standard and found some HVAC stuff, nothing in the plumbing arena.

    If you have followed various plumbing forums, you already know that there seemed to be a lot of earlier issues with the Champion, but the Champion 4 may have most of it resolved. The Cadet 3 is probably the best performance/value choice in the AmStd lineup, if you don't like pressure assisted toilets.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    If you have the Champion with the flush tower, you may want to ask American Standard for the replacement flush valve.
    Don't forget a 1/2" deep socket to remove the tank nuts.

    http://www.americanstandardclassaction.com/


    Notice the factory chip out of the right side of the tank lid,
    It's been sanded and glazed over at the factory, and sold that way.
    I guess a broken lid is good enough to sell.
    Last edited by Terry; 02-24-2008 at 04:49 PM.

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    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I guess a broken lid is good enough to sell.
    Yeah, who's going to notice it in the back there? Put a doily on it or something.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Yeah, who's going to notice it in the back there? Put a doily on it or something.
    To a plumber, it does make a difference. When I send a plumber out with a toilet, and it's broken at the factory, it's becomes a waste of time.
    This particular tank had been bought at a home center, but I were the one supplying it, it would mean a second trip to bring back a good one.
    I've also seen factory patch jobs in the tank that weeped water onto the floor, and I've also seen the comments about patch jobs on lower trapways that leaked.
    As an installing plumber, I don't think I should have to expect to carry two tanks, two bowls, to make sure I have one toilet to install.
    If I'm finding that they are putting "B" grade product in the boxes, I'm not going to be going out of my way to unload them for the manufacturer.
    It's my name and reputation on the block.

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    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    I've also seen the comments about patch jobs on lower trapways that leaked.
    After I experienced that twice I stopped buying Am. Std.

    Fool me once shame on you!
    Fool me twice shame on me!
    Fool me three times... I'd have to be a freakin masochist!

  7. #7

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    We have the original Champion toilets that we bought in 2005.

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    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Your source for info is www.cpsc.gov

    I went there and seached toilets, found none. Searched American Standard and found some HVAC stuff, nothing in the plumbing arena.

    If you have followed various plumbing forums, you already know that there seemed to be a lot of earlier issues with the Champion, but the Champion 4 may have most of it resolved. The Cadet 3 is probably the best performance/value choice in the AmStd lineup, if you don't like pressure assisted toilets.
    This site would only have information on product safety related recalls...
    Not nusances like the Chumpian defects

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    DIY Member plumbtired's Avatar
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    Unhappy Seconds R Us...@ HD, anyway

    Home Depot is known to carry seconds (haven't heard that about Lowes, though). I'd bet the pictured defective tank cover was a HD purchase!

    Per the Champion defects: American Standard is replacing the miserable piston-style flush valve with the flapper style, as shown in Terry's photo. It's a world of difference on how the Champion toilet performs...well worth the replacement's hassle of removing the tank, then re-seating it.

    Per the vendors selling the Champion (like Home Depot = HD): their sales people are absolutely ignorant of the problems of the Champion and the piston-style flush valve. I happened to be in HD a couple of weeks ago, looking for replacement parts for a faucet, when I overheard a frustrated customer telling an HD employee about his leaking toilet and not being able to find a replacement seal or flush valve (he was clutching two close-but-no-cigars replacements in his hands). I butted into the conversation and told the customer and HD employee that a phone call to American Standard would solve the issue. I informed both of them there was a free replacement flapper style flush valve being provided by American Standard... and I mentioned this forum, my source of the replacement flush valve information! I do wonder if the HD employee informed others in his department of this issue...fat chance!

    And, shame on American Standard for not recalling all those pesky piston-style valves, providing information to the vendors, like HD, about this issue.
    American business at its finest = beware, customer!

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    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumbtired View Post
    Per the vendors selling the Champion (like Home Depot = HD): their sales people are absolutely ignorant of the problems of the Champion and the piston-style flush valve.
    That sounds like the biggest load of stuff that ever fell out from under a bulls tail!

    Big Box knows full well about the defective junk they sell! They see the returns! They deal with the angry customers! They are trained to be nice and tell the customer to call the manufacturers @ 1-800.... They have done their job Big Box is off the hook! The customer is in limbo with junk product in their home! And big box is still pushing piggies out the door!

    Ya should have seen the guy at Lowes when I asked him if the Zurn PEX fittings they were still selling were the ones covered under the Class Action Lawsuit! He couldn't get away from me fast enough!
    Last edited by Redwood; 02-26-2008 at 06:18 AM.

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    DIY Junior Member JHZR2's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I have a champion from around 2010. It doesn't have the piston, but does indeed leak so I hear the water coming to fill it back.

    Can anyone advise the best approach for the flap style champion to fix leaking? Are parts the same uncommon issue like the piston?

    Thanks to this site and the great review and info areas, we know what to ask for next time, which will be soon as we are redoing another bathroom...

    Thanks!

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
    Hello,

    I have a champion from around 2010. It doesn't have the piston, but does indeed leak so I hear the water coming to fill it back.

    Can anyone advise the best approach for the flap style champion to fix leaking? Are parts the same uncommon issue like the piston?

    Thanks to this site and the great review and info areas, we know what to ask for next time, which will be soon as we are redoing another bathroom...

    Thanks!
    Korky makes a Champion 4 flush valve seal: http://korky.com/Flapper450BP.html Korky is the company that invented the flapper, makes one of the fill valves used on Toto toilets, and makes factory-OEM replacement parts for Toto fill valves and Fits Toto flappers, all manufactured here in the USA. A number of the pros on here recommend their fill valve and flapper for Toto toilets, and at least one highly-respected pro here says that he always uses a Korky flapper when replacing a flapper on a generic toilet.

    Check the instructions here:http://korky.com/PDF/450BP.pdf and see if it fits the system in your tank (i.e. compare tank number as shown in the instructions).

    Looks like a pretty simple fix (although not as simple as just replacing a flapper...)

    If you can't find it at your local hardware store (my local ACE carries it), HD has it in the stores (and only in the store) for $5.98 but uses part number 450CM (rather than 450BP). Same product, but likely packaged differently. (BP likely stands for "Blister Pack") You can use the HD online tool here to check if your local store has it: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051 (Click the "Pick Up In Store Button" and input your zip code to see the purported local stock level.)

    You can also get the original AS seal online. Part No. 7301111-0070A. If it were I, however, I would get the Korky product because experience tells me their stuff is going to be much-higher-quality than the AS product, which they just get someone to bang out at the cheapest possible price.

    PS I notice that one of the HD product reviews recommends that you leave the old seal in and put this one on top. I wouldn't do that. This seal should replace, not supplement, the original seal.
    Last edited by Terry; 02-16-2014 at 05:32 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member JHZR2's Avatar
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    Wow, wjcandee, thanks so very much for that info. Will pick up one of those to do the fix.

    Thanks very much!

  14. #14
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
    Wow, wjcandee, thanks so very much for that info. Will pick up one of those to do the fix.

    Thanks very much!
    My pleasure!! So that others may benefit, let us know how it works out!

    PS The Lowe's web site was offline when I looked last night. They have it as well, online and in-store, 450PK this time for the model number, and a little cheaper than HD. There were more product reviews on that site. The ones that installed the thing correctly all liked it. (One guy said he put aside an hour to fix the toilet, installed this kit, and wondered what to do with the other 55 minutes.) The ones that didn't put it in right, naturally, all said it leaked and that AS sucked.

    One review might be helpful to you. The guy said the trick was to get the "sandwich" nice and tight (as did one HD review which recommended that you tighten till you hear 2 clicks). He recommended cradling the bottom piece of the sandwich in one hand, putting the new seal in, making sure it was lined up evenly [duh], and then being sure to get the top nut nice and tight, after which the thing works great.

    And -- of course -- when you reinstall, make sure that your trip lever (flush handle) arm hasn't moved inadvertently and that you are still pulling straight up.

    Also, the Korky flush valve seal comes with a 5-year warranty, so if it starts leaking before then, provided you aren't using an in-tank bowl cleaner, they will send you a new one. They have really nice, helpful, American phone people to answer your call. (I called them last week when I misplaced a little metal clip for the refill hose on a toilet when installing one of their fill valves in place of the non-Korky valve that came with the toilet; they happily sent me another one and it was here in two days by first-class mail.)
    Last edited by wjcandee; 07-08-2012 at 02:29 PM.

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    Engineer maddog's Avatar
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    The original blue seal on the Champion flush valve developed blisters and began to leak in less than a year. I replaced it with the red one from Korky (bought it at Lowes) and it has been leak-free for about 2 years.

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