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Thread: Redgard for tiled shower? Waterproof...

  1. #16

    Red face

    RedGard is a great product when installed properly. It is approved for walls, ceilings, shower pan liners...and yes, even steam
    showers.

    I have been a pro for 25 years and the stuff has not failed me yet...and I have been using it since it first came out.
    IMHO, it is much easier than kerdi and nobleseal.

    I always use mesh tape around the drains and where 2 surfaces meet. It allows you to encapsulate the entire shower from
    the ceiling to the drain. You can brush, roll, and even spray it on ( use a size 25 to 29 tip ) and man it goes on quick.

    It's perm rating is great and test show that when cured, it can stretch 5 1/2x it's size without leaking. Now why wouldn't
    anyone want to use a product like that?

    I often hear tile guys put down Redgard, saying Kerdi this or Noble that...and scratch my head....as it can marry to an adjustable ring drain and is so quick and can carry a Manufacturer's LIFETIME WARRANTY...yeah you read that right.

    Build dozens of tile showers in a new hotel....and tell me that manually applying Kerdi or Noble is quicker than spraying 45 mil
    of Redgard.....cause it aint so.

    My opinion....Worth the price charged
    Last edited by Keith the tile guy; 10-24-2011 at 07:39 PM.

  2. #17
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member Ceci's Avatar
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    Hi John,

    I have a question if you don't mind. Would it create a problem if one were to do the preslope, then put in a Oatey pan liner, then the final mudbed, and then redgard the whole thing? Just asking since someone who came out to my house stated he does it that way. Never heard of using both the Oatey pan liner and the redgard over the final mud bed. He would use the redgard over the Hardieboard shower walls also as the way to waterproof them.

    Thanks,
    Ceci

  4. #19
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    That's not a good idea. If everything was perfect, it might work out. If the weep holes were compromised, you'd end up with moisture trapped between the two layers. If you want a surface membrane, use a surface membrane, either a painted on one or a fabric. Don't try to mix systems. All of the approved methods stick to one means of waterproofing. A surface membrane has advantages - much less to get saturated, quicker drying times, and, therefore, a lower chance of mold. Mold requires three things: moisture, spores (can't really get rid of them), and food. You can minimize food by being meticulous in your cleaning regimen, but few people are - those nooks and crannies are tough to keep squeaky clean.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #20
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  6. #21
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default ICC International Code Council - Shower Liner Flood Test

    I stumbled upon this link on Shower Liner Flood tests and thought I would share it.

    Here is the ICC's take on "Flood Testing" Shower pan liners.

    http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...-P-2009-000019

    JW


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  7. #22
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Except during a flood test, a typical shower should never see much of any liquid water on the liner; and, if it is constructed properly, any that does get there will flow to the drain through the weep holes, if that kind of a drain is utilized and the liner is properly sloped (people that put the liner flat on the floor deserve any grief they get!). If it is something like a surface membrane shower, there may not be any weep holes, and, since it is then immediately beneath the tile which should be bonded well with thinset, there couldn't be much liquid water there at all since the thinset and tile are nearly a solid mass, bonded to the surface membrane.

    Kerdi tends to bead water if you just drop some on the surface, so if you flooded it, it could take awhile for it all to become totally wetted, thus the initial drop in level. Then, any exposed thinset would absorb a little as well. Once equilibrium has been reached, except for evaporation, it should be stable. A drop after that reaching that initial equilibrium would indicate a leak.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #23
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  9. #24
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  10. #25
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    A big baking pan left out in my home, filled to the brim, was down more than an 1/8" in 24-hours. Now, add the fleece on the waterproofing membrane to the sides, and it could easily have been more. Vancouver's average humidity levels are pretty high. Some places are not. Then, throw in central heating, with or without humidification, and the variances you'll get can be significant from season to season and home to home. To state the level will not drop is condition dependent, and ignoring simple physics. Any evidence of moisture penetrating things is a cause for concern and remedy...a slight drop, may not be. Any rapid drop is a great concern.

    Your box, coated with Kerdi does not appear to be well adhered to the substrate with a full coat of thinset. For the material and seams to work, both they and the entire material needs to be properly embedded. I've touched a cardboard box, filled with ice and water for months, waterproofed with Kerdi only on the inside that was still intact, entirely dry. Installed properly, it does not leak. No special materials used...just Kerdi and thinset plus good technique. If you can't replicate that, you're doing something wrong.

    A Hyundai has a 10-year warranty on the drivetrain...a Mercedes 4-years...which is a better car? The length of a warranty isn't necessarily an indication of quality.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  11. #26
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  12. #27
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I went away for two weeks and the (lid-closed) toilet bowl was down a couple of inches...relative humidity levels vary radically across the country. Flat saying any water sitting out will not drop in level is just wrong...it may be true in the summer without a/c and close to 100% RH, but not in many locales. All I can tell you is that I filled the pan to the brim - overflowing, and the next day, it was down over 1/8". No fans running (radiant heat), the pan sitting in the sink.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #28
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  14. #29
    DIY Junior Member ggoose's Avatar
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    Hello John,

    Interesting posts. I was wondering if you might elaborate on the process of setting the 3-piece drain using Redgard as the liner. I think I have it figured out from your photos, but am not quite sure.
    Thanks...

    ggoose

  15. #30
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

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