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Thread: Kohler Persuade Review, pictures and comments

  1. #31
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Let me repeat this.

    I have sold 300 of the TOTO Aquia toilets. They are nearly perfect as far as I can tell. Less then 1% returns, which for construction, you could argue that it's about as perfect as you're ever going to get.
    When there has been an installation error, we've been able to go to the homeowners location and readjust the tank bolts and everyting will be fine.
    We tell our customers, that since the black rubber seal between tank and bowl is of firmer rubber then the sponge rubber gaskets that other toilets use, that it requires slowing down just a bit, and using a screwdriver back and forth on both sides, tightening the tank to the bowl much like you would for the torquing of the bolts when reinstalling a head to a motor engine. You can't just crank one side of the tank down too far pulling it off center and expect a good result. Slow down and tighten evenly.
    And that's why out of 300 toilets sold, there were 297 that worked perfectly.
    The homeowners are doing a better job than the plumbers by the way. They tend to read the instructions and will listen to advice. If they want to have their own plumber do the installation, we will talk that plumber through the installation for them. Most of the time, their plumber is too impatient though. We can take the same toilet, (and we have) and install it perfectly. It's pretty sad when plumbers can only do a few things right.
    But then, it opens up complete markets for people that have brains.
    Last edited by Terry; 11-03-2010 at 11:10 AM.

  2. #32
    DIY Junior Member jjustice's Avatar
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    Thank you for the input. I am a 60 year old female living alone who just bought a house and I am gutting the bathrooms and the kitchen. I will try and talk to the builder and/or plumber about the installation factor. I just hope they listen.

  3. #33
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I've installed the Persuade too, it's no piece of cake to install either.



    It's pretty similar to the Aquia installation.
    Here is the Persuade installation below.


  4. #34
    DIY Junior Member jjustice's Avatar
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    I haven't heard about any leaks with the Persuade though.

  5. #35
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Nobody buys them, that's why.
    The tank goes on just like the Aquia. I've installed one Persuade in the Seattle area, and guess what? No leak.
    And I've sold 300 Aquia toilets. And guess what? I had a few that other people installed that leaked, that I was able to fix by retightening the bolts in the tank.

    If a homeowner has no problems installing them, then you would think a plumber could do it too.

    But hey, since we're one for one on the persuade, go ahead. They are both dual flush toilets, they both use a floor mounting system, and they both use a similar method for attaching the tank.
    You may be over thinking this.
    The biggest difference is the flush between the two, but then checking that, that seems pretty close too.
    The bowl on the Persuade that needs a 12" rough at the minimum, no floor mold, and the supply can't be behind the bowl.

    No floor mold. What were they thinking? Why not have someone park a car six inches away from your drivers door too?


    Looking inside the Persuade tank.



    Looking inside the Aquia tank. Wow! what a big difference.
    Does one tank look harder to install? Not to me.

    The supply line for the Kohler is a bit strange though going through a hole in the side of the bowl.
    The location of the water shutoff for the Kohler has less margin for error.
    Last edited by Terry; 10-18-2011 at 09:59 PM.

  6. #36
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    ANY toilet can leak if it is not installed properly. MOST toilets will leak if they do not sit flat on the floor without rocking (if it does, it needs to be shimmed properly during installation before you mush down the wax ring). Installed properly, you'll have a much lower chance of a leak on a Toto than most other toilets as their QA/QC and consistency in manufacturing is generally better than the competition.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #37
    DIY Junior Member jjustice's Avatar
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    What are the flush ratings for both and what does that mean exactly - how strong the flush is?

  8. #38
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    There is a group that compares toilets. They get rated by how much plastic wrapped goo they can flush. Plastic wrapped goo (sort of like a sausage or hot dog) isn't the same as the 'real' stuff. Some manufactuers have figured out how to make their toilet look fantastic in this test, but they fail in the real world with the real thing, either by not cleaning the bowl (not part of the test), or just working right. On that test, the designer has basically said anything over 500g is fine. Some will hit nearly 1000g. I've never seen a stool that was anywhere near that heavy (1000g if you related it to sticks of butter would be about 10 end-to-end). Some of those tested only manage 200-300g, and are generally real dogs, but hit 500 or more, and it should work, but more doesn't necessarily mean it is truely better.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #39
    DIY Junior Member WilliamG's Avatar
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    Hi, all. Thank you for the informative thread you have going here.

    I'm having an issue and it's making me want to tear my hair out! I have a Kohler Persuade on all three floors of my 2-year-old house. My upstairs Persuade has developed a slow leak into the bowl, and I can't figure out why. My first guess was the middle flapper (?) mechanism with the dual-flush system, so I swapped it with my middle floor Persuade to see if that would fix it, and it doesn't! I don't know what else can be causing the water to slowly leak into the bowl from the tank.

    I've left this toilet turned off now, because of it (tank level drops an inch maybe every 10 minutes).

    Please, I'm at my wits' end!

  10. #40
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    Has anyone tried to get a manometer on these things? I just installed 3 persuades in a complete remodel and cannot for the life of me get even so much as a bubble. Almost ready to pull all fixtures and do another pressure test. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this as I have never installed these til now.
    thanks

  11. #41
    DIY Junior Member Wren Thomos's Avatar
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    Thank you very much Nickfinity for this great information.
    We specialize in renovation and offering our clients reliable design
    and construction services for general home renovations, kitchen
    renovations, basement renovations, bathroom renovations.
    we are thinking to use Aquias in our projects,Hopefully those will work out good for us.

  12. #42
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    Default Did you figure it out?

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
    Hi, all. Thank you for the informative thread you have going here.

    I'm having an issue and it's making me want to tear my hair out! I have a Kohler Persuade on all three floors of my 2-year-old house. My upstairs Persuade has developed a slow leak into the bowl, and I can't figure out why. My first guess was the middle flapper (?) mechanism with the dual-flush system, so I swapped it with my middle floor Persuade to see if that would fix it, and it doesn't! I don't know what else can be causing the water to slowly leak into the bowl from the tank.

    I've left this toilet turned off now, because of it (tank level drops an inch maybe every 10 minutes).

    Please, I'm at my wits' end!
    I have the same problem and need to figure his out. I noticed that the rubber gasket attached to the bottom of the flushing mechanism has developed bubbles in it, like blisters and I think this is preventing a complete seal. I haven't been able to remove this gasket from the flushing assembly. Do I need to buy a new entire mechanism instead of just replacing this gasket?
    By the way, as others have mentioned, this toilet was a royal pain in the butt to install. I am not a pro plumber, but I know my way around toilets and this was just bad design and execution. Like others have mentioned, the supply line going into the side was odd and the plastic grommet snaps into the opening never has fit correctly. I would never buy this toilet again.

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