Kohler Persuade Review, pictures and comments

[nickfinity]

My wife and I are going to be building a new house soon and have been looking at toilets. We are considering the Aquia, but on another site it seemed to have a fair amount of people who didn't care a great deal for it. Still haven't ruled it out though.

I think it's new, but does anyone have any thoughts on the Kohler Persuade?

Thanks,
Nick

[jadnashua]

As I understand it, the Aquia has been sold overseas for awhile before it got here - many places are more concerned about conservation of water than the USA, but hopefully, we're catching up. Toto is the largest toilet manufacturer in the world, with factories all over the place, including the USA.

[Redwood]

Before you get Persuded try this little exercise...

Go to your local hardware store and ask for a Kohler #1087556 flush valve... Be prepared for a bewildered look followed by the you have a third eye in your forehead look as you try to explain that the flush valve you have does not match anything he has to offer.

Next go to any supply house that does not offer Kohler and ask them if they have one... They will say bring it on down and we'll match it up... Don't bother look in their aftermarket parts book and see if any of the pictures match... Don't worry they won't! Try not to waste the counter guys time just ask for the book and see if one of the pictures match...

Next go to a supply house that carries the Kohler line and ask if they have the Kohler #1087556 flush valve... Don't worry they won't, even though they sell Kohler. The reason is Kohler has 258 different flush valves they use in their line of toilets. If the Kohler distributor was to stock them all they would go broke from the inventory.

Now you're starting to see how limited your options are... Call 1-800-4-Kohler don't use the website its brutal! Try to order the Kohler # 1087556 flush valve and see where that gets you... Don't be surprised when they say 3 weeks till they ship it and it goes UPS Ground! I hope its not going to be your only toilet! You may want to consider buying 2 so you have a backup unit ready for installation.

Here is a link to your flush valve http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler...=0&PageSize=12 At $ 58.30 its a steal! I have seen some of their toilet parts as high as $275 and the customer looks at me like I'm a Thief! Yea, I recommend Kohler... Can you tell?

[grazzy]

i have six of the older model kohlers from the eighties. the brass fill valves cost about $200 apiece, and for the others, you can't even buy the plastic fill valve or any part within it, without replacing the flush valve and fill valve ($92 for the kit). Fortunately Lowes has started carrying a clone of the plastic one for less than ten bucks. Nearly all Kohlers leak because the flapper doesn't seat properly. all the parts have been renumbered and the "help" line leaves you wanting to cry HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO MORE KOHLERS FOR ME.

p.s. try buying a kohler seat from the manufacturer or a dealer. $80+ for the cheap ones. Even the flush handle is around $40.

[nickfinity]

Thanks for the help everyone. I think we've decided to go with two Aquias (for the master and half bath) and a Drake (for what will be the kids bathroom). Hopefully those will work out good for us.

Thanks again.

[Redwood]

A very good set of choices there! They will work out well for you!

[ted01]

I have been a plumber for 26 years and I have never seen a worse toilet than the the Kohler Persuade.It needs to be piped specifically for this toilet.You cannot use this toilet as a replacement unless the water and waste are dead on.The rough needs to be correct or it won't fit.Water has to be right where it is specified.You cannot change the flex or fluidmaster without pulling the toilet and removing the tank.I just installed 3 at a customer's house,and now they want them removed and Toto toilets installed.Hard to pick up and set.Sits flush against the wall,so you can't have base molding behind the toilet.Kohler was no help at all.Another plumber here in town refuses to install these,and I have just told my supply houses that I will never install them again.BEWARE OF THIS TOILET!


The distance from the back wall to the center of the drain must be at least 12"
The water supply should be at 8-1/2" to the left of center.
The mounting clips need to be exact, and even at that, it took about 10 minutes to finally get the bolts to thread up after setting the bowl.

[pgheric]

I noted with interest the comments on the Kohler Persuade toilet and I just have a few cents of my own to offer. I have recently replaced two toilets in my house, and while they are both very basic (old style, cheaper) toilets, I have come to discover that Kohler is not the only toilet that has unusual and not often-stocked parts. I looked at my local Lowe's and found at least a dozen different flappers alone, and 4 actual STYLES of fill valves. I also saw a Kohler toilet seat for under $19.

There were very few Toto parts.
Toto only uses the red or blue flapper, which are both on the shelf, and will use any standard fill valve.
If you have a Korky or Fluidmaster fill valve, and the red Toto flapper, those are the only things you will need to repair almost any Toto toilet.

What this all means to me is that if I want reliability in ANY toilet that is new, unique, or rare, I will buy in advance a few common repair parts and keep them on hand for when they fail. We all know that repair parts can be difficult to find for anything in our homes, like furnaces (especially the most efficient ones with numerous sensors and computers), even lawnmowers and such. What I am really interested in knowing about this toilet is.... does it FLUSH? and does it flush WELL? The rest of this is pointless. If you want good products, be prepared to maintain them. People with Mercedes, Audis, Volvos, Samsung appliances, solar power systems, residential windmills, water pumps.... know that keeping common repair parts on hand is part of owning better equipment.


Looking inside the Persuade tank.

[Gary Swart]

Toto uses standard parts that are available everywhere. No, they are not labeled "Toto" because they are the same parts many other brands use. The key to Toto's success is not the flush valve or mechanics that simply control water release, but the design, engineering and quality control of the rest of the product.

[pgheric]

none of the complaints about the Kohler product related to quality control of the rest of the product, and I have seen special flappers that go with Toto toilets only. In addition, even the newest American Standard and Crane toilets have special flush valves in multiple sizes that will not fit universal flappers. The fill valves of these toilets are standard, but the flush parts are not, and if they fail, the toilet is equally disabled just as if the fill valve were not functioning properly. I don't have a thing for Kohler specifically, but I DO have a thing for quality that goes beyond a brand name. I know people who have had pressure flush toilets that have waited months for repair parts for them as well, and they were not Kohler. I think it is unfair to single out this toilet because it may take a talented person to install it, and I believe in saving water both now and in the future. So far as I have been able to find, the Kohler Persuade is one of the lowest price dual-flush toilets on the market, and having to keep a fill and flush valve on hand would not deter me from buying one.

[Redwood]

none of the complaints about the Kohler product related to quality control of the rest of the product, and I have seen special flappers that go with Toto toilets only. In addition, even the newest American Standard and Crane toilets have special flush valves in multiple sizes that will not fit universal flappers. The fill valves of these toilets are standard, but the flush parts are not, and if they fail, the toilet is equally disabled just as if the fill valve were not functioning properly. I don't have a thing for Kohler specifically, but I DO have a thing for quality that goes beyond a brand name, and I'm sure that people who own Toto toilets have had parts and other service issues with them as well. I know people who have had pressure flush toilets that have waited months for repair parts for them as well, and they were not Kohler. I think it is unfair to single out this toilet because it may take a talented person to install it, and I believe in saving water both now and in the future. So far as I have been able to find, the Kohler Persuade is one of the lowest price dual-flush toilets on the market, and having to keep a fill and flush valve on hand would not deter me from buying one.

Show me one other toilet by any other manufacturer in the whole world where you have to remove the toilet to replace the fill valve and supply line.

Show Me!

The fill valve, supply line, and the flapper are the most commonly changed parts on any toilet. They made a plumbers nightmare when they designed that crappy crapper.

BTW the link I put up for parts a little over a year ago now comes up page not found...
I guess they musta redesigned it and now there is yet another Kohler Part Number... Go figure..

[advertguy2]

I've had the Persuade installed for 3 or 4 months now and so far it's been trouble free in terms of flushing. To be honest though, I haven't really had a chance to fully "test" it yet since most of the time deposits are made at work. It's easy to clean with the skirted design. I got the cachet soft close seat for it instead of the one that they recommend which isn't soft close. Don't know what else I can say. Looks cool.

Dan

[Redwood]

I've had the Persuade installed for 3 or 4 months now and so far it's been trouble free in terms of flushing. To be honest though, I haven't really had a chance to fully "test" it yet since most of the time deposits are made at work. It's easy to clean with the skirted design. I got the cachet soft close seat for it instead of the one that they recommend which isn't soft close. Don't know what else I can say. Looks cool.

Dan

Lets have this talk in about 5 years...
I predict your review will be less than glowing.

[advertguy2]

I'll put it on my calender

I'll actually be installing a Toto Aquia II in the main bath that I'm renovating. That should go in by the end of the summer. I'll be able to do a head to head comparison.

[Redwood]

The fun will start in about 5 years which is about the average life expectancy of many of the parts....