Pump Cycling

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RayRay

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Hi all. I've recently started experiencing some cycling problems with my system. I had a new well drilled about 10 years ago (4"....old well was 2"). What's happening is when you run water, the pump kicks on about every 15 seconds. It kicks on at 30psi and off at 50psi, but as soon as it kicks off, the pressure drops to 40psi. It does this over and over, as long as the water is running. Sometimes, the water won't we running at all, and it will do it. Also, I've not really noticed a change in pressure at the faucet. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks, Ray
 

Mikey

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Sounds like a ruptured bladder in the bladder tank, or a waterlogged non-bladder tank. Send back some details on the kind of tank you've got, its age, etc., and one of the real pros will comment.
 

RayRay

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It was installed when the well was drilled 10 years ago. Gould pump. Tank is an A.O. Smith Aqua-Air Mod. V80EX.
 

Speedbump

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It's amazing that A.O Smith tank lasted that long. You might want to replace it soon before it gets that ten year old pump that has outlasted itself also. Seven years is average for a Submersible Pump but with the waterlogged tank, your really trying hard to take it out.

bob...
 
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RayRay

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OK. I'm ready to buy a tank. I looked at the products on the link you provided. What size tank is minimum/recommended. I live in a one story ranch, with 1 bathroom, if it matters. Thanks, Ray
 

Speedbump

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Assuming you have a 1/2hp submersible pump, bigger is always better. The largest tank I can ship economically is the PC-144 which is equal to a 120 gallon galvanized tank.

With a Cycle Stop Valve you could easily get by with a PC-66 which is equal to a 42 gallon tank. It would save you $$$ and work much better.

bob...
 
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Hube

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It's amazing that A.O Smith tank lasted that long. You might want to replace it soon before it gets that ten year old pump that has outlasted itself also. Seven years is average for a Submersible Pump
bob...
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i think you are incorrect in saying this.
it would seem to me that most sub pumps have a MUCH longer life span than just a mere 7 years.
Anyone else like to add their two cents on this?
 
R

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Hmmm, lets see:

Dad's well, replaced first pump at about 24 years (1979), I sold the place last year, guy calls me and says well pump went out... I'm thinking he wants money... then he tells me the pump was 28 years old.

They were both Berkeley pumps.

My home well pump has only been replaced because the wire rubbed the casing and shorted, it was 10 years old, but hadn't gone bad.

It was a Sears pump, who ever makes it for Sears.

Rancher
 

Speedbump

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It was a Sears pump, who ever makes it for Sears.

That would be Sta-Rite. One of the many companies bought by Pentair. The pump companies that aren't owned by Pentair are owned by ITT. There are very few independents left out there.

If anybody thinks that one submersible pump is superior to any other; you had better guess again. Everybody talks about Goulds being the top pump. They are owned by ITT and they sponsor a Nascar. That's why they cost more.

bob...
 

Hube

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speedbump;If anybody thinks that one submersible pump is superior to any other; you had better guess again. bob...[/QUOTE said:
**********************************************************huh!! then why are you claiming that a pump only lasts for 7 years!!!

I would think that some other makes of pumps are VERY superior to others, especially when they have lasted for 15-25 years (and more) in a lot of wells.
 

Speedbump

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Your living in the past.

25 years ago pumps were made better.

Do you really think anyone in Corporate America wants any product they Manufacture to last 25 years? You need to get with the times.

bob...
 

Pumpman

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I'm in a position where I work with a number of pump contractors. Most of them like one manufacturer over another, and will give you a million reasons why. I know contractors that will install a Berkeley 4" sub pump, but wouldn't touch a Sta-rite (they come off the same assembly line....the ONLY difference is the sticker).
I installed A.O. Smith tanks for years. I had very, very few fail, and replaced alot of Starite, Well-X-Trol and Well Mate tanks with them.
I'm a firm believer that most major manufacturers have pretty good pumps out there. I also believe that alot of pump failures are because the contractor mis-applied the pump. I see alot of warranty requests and when I question the application the pump was in, I have to wonder what the contractor was thinking when he installed it.
There are a lot of preferances out there when it comes to pumps and associated equipment. Everyone has their favorite. I've even had contractors slam a product, and when I've ask them if they've ever used it, said no!!!
Anyway.....
Ron
 

Hube

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Do you really think anyone in Corporate America wants any product they Manufacture to last 25 years?
bob...
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Yes, I do. Not every one is a crook
but then it takes one to know one:p
 

Valveman

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Most people feel the same way. They cannot believe that American corporations would actually design products to fail, instead of last as they should. So the corporate snow job has been very successful!
 

Sammyhydro11

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My brother has a friend that was an engineer for a company that makes auto parts. His job was to design the parts so they would actualy fail after a certain number of years.

Sammy
 

Valveman

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Everything is America is now built that way. The corporations stay quiet about it. The rest of us stay blissfully ignorant that it is even happening. I am afraid "being green" is the bait they use to get even more "green" out of our pockets.
 

Speedbump

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In today's economy products are often "designed to market". You can buy a 1/2 HP jet pump with plastic body for $150 to $200, or you can buy a stainless pump for about $400. The purchaser decides what he wants and pays the bill.

Don't let the word Stainless Steel make you think your getting more for your money. In most cases it just isn't so. Open up one of these Stainless units and see what is actually inside. That is what counts. You will find most of the time it's just plain plastic and won't outlast any other product.
 

Speedbump

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Plain bearings running in their design specs under flooded lubrication will nearly always outlive sealed ball bearings.

I have customers bringing in Pool Pump motors for Bearing jobs every day. These open drip proof motors running in the open, in the sun in the rain and the elements last on average seven years. This is not in confined area away from humidity, rain and sun as they would be in a submersible motor. How long do you think they would last in that environment. And these bearings are plastic sheilded 6203 cheap bearings that anyone can buy for less than $1.50 each.

bob...
 

Valveman

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In 1974, an engineer for one of the top pump companies at the time, told me directly that they were redesigning their pumps completely. He outright told me that there company could not make profit producing pumps that would last for 30 years. All their pumps were being de-engineered to last an average of 5 years. Mineral oil lubricated ball bearings were removed and replaced with carbon plates. Brass impellers were switched to all plastic, etc., etc.

Anyone who has ever been privy to top level meetings in large corporations knows what I am talking about. The rest of us just don't believe that corporations would do that to us, and we just keep buying inferior built products over and over again.

Once quality was engineered out of our products, price became the only consideration. So now we shop for the lowest price instead of quality, because wether we admit it out loud or not, we realize quality is no longer available at any price.

I would pay much extra for a car with a stainless steel body. That is as long as they put in an engine without aluminum blocks, plastic timing gears, and short lived electronic controls. These kinds of cars are not available because we now only shop for price. You may think you are shopping for quality but, it does not really exist.

With things like cars, we pay extra for the cool factor. So they make it cool and make sure there are a few plastic gears with a certain short life expectancy, then we have to buy something cool again in short order.

I guess this is more evident to me than to others because, I have spent 15 years selling Cycle Stop Valves in the pump industry. You would not believe the lengths that pump and motor companies have gone to try and squash or discredit Cycle Stop Valves. Not because there is anything wrong with the CSV as a control but, rather because the CSV makes pumps last longer and use smaller tanks. Having had this hit me in the face everyday for years, has opened my eyes to the fact that it happens with almost every product we buy these days. The fact that most people do not realize or believe this is happening, keeps corporations laughing all the way to the bank.
 
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