Sewage Pump/Basin question

DEC · Jan 30, 2008

Sewage Pump/Basin question Now with Pictures of Piping

I have a sewage pump / basin set up in the house and it handles 100% of the water waste for the home. We have lived here for approximatly 3 years, the first year went by with no problems. First problem was the pump went, I installed per the installation manual a Gould effluent and sewage pump, model WS0511B. Worked great for a few months then the backing up started. I installed a new schedule 80 check valve. The vent on the pump discharge piping is the size and location suggested in the manual.

I recently opened the basin and completly cleaned it and installed a new schedule 80 check valve. Worked great for a couple weeks....Back up again. Could this be from heavy buildup in the main line from my house to the city connection? I am making preps to replace the entire basin and pump due to the fact the bolts holding the basin cover on tightly broke when I replaced the pump initially and I want a seal there.

When the back up occurs the pump is running and a tap on the discharge pipe starts the unit pumping out.

I am installing a new basin and I want to ensure the back up stops. Any Suggestions?

Greatfully
Dave C

Prashster · Jan 30, 2008

Bkz a tap on the discharge gets it flowing, seems like the prob is somewhere in the disch line btn the pump and the main line.

What kind of check valve are you using? How's it mounted?
Dumb question: is your gate valve 100% open?
Can you take a pic of the discharge? How sharp are the bends?
Is there a partial block in the discharge line?

Not sure a tap'd cure this, but is yr pump airlocking? A small hole btn pump and lid in disch line will prevent this fm happening.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

DEC · Jan 30, 2008

Prashster
the check is an over the counter schedule 80 PVC check valve installed in the horizontal. The isolation valve is open 100 %. I have attached 2 pictures, pump discharge piping is brite white.
I have vented the pump discgharge line as described in the owners manual what vent are you talking about (lid in disch line )?

Patrick88 · Jan 30, 2008

The installers guide says to drill a hole in the side of the discharge pipe between the pump and tank cover. It makes a world of difference.

DEC · Jan 30, 2008

10-4 that hole is 1/8 inch and located on the discharge line approximatly 4 inches up from where the line connects to the pump. That was done when the pump was installed.

Patrick88 · Jan 30, 2008

DEC said:
10-4 that hole is 1/8 inch and located on the discharge line approximatly 4 inches up from where the line connects to the pump. That was done when the pump was installed.

Good.
I would run a snake out to the city. It seems like you have a stoppage or slow drain from your house out. Make sure they it camera also.

Jadnashua · Jan 30, 2008

Making so many turns certainly doesn't help any. Reorienting things and using long sweep el's or a couple 45's might help so you don't make nearly a full circle of changes in direction. You should be able to get it to maybe a 45 out of the tank and another one into the sewer. Same's true with the inlets. Seems you could raise the one coming in so it was easier to get around it and straighten out some things. I've no real experience with check valves, but wouldn't it be more likely to stick open on the horizontal run? You don't have much slope, but could it be installed with a little slope? Might not make any difference, just don't know.

Redwood · Jan 30, 2008

If you are 100% reliant on this ejector I would recommend upgrading to a duplex system with alarm.

DEC · Jan 30, 2008

I have gotten estimates for a line cleaning and scope, as soon as possible that will be completed. The piping could be easily straightened out a little and would make it alot easier to access the pit. Thanks for the input.
It is strange to say the least. I have worked with pumps and systems my entire life and this has me stumped.
Any suggestions gentleman on a duplex system?

More specific.
The pump runs but fails to discharge. You tap and I mean literally tap the discharge line and it takes right off and pumps. Seems like air bound or a check valve problem but I do not see how. Man I have to shake my head on this one.
My main worry is buying a duplex and having the same problem I have now. Hate to (pardon the pun) flush that kind of cash down the drain.

Guys thanks for putting the time in to read and think of solutions to assist me, it is really appreciated.

Redwood · Jan 30, 2008

You clearly need to find out what is going on in terms of the problem. But, As for when you go to redo the pit because its rusted out That is when I would suggest the duplex system. Purely because you are 100% reliant on it and you should have a back up.

DEC · Jan 30, 2008

It is time to do the pit. Bolts broke off the lid 1st time I changed the pump. I need to speak to someone that has expierence with this type of system to get different views and perspectives of the problem. I may try a second vent hole in the discharge line...at this point it can't hurt

Patrick88 · Jan 30, 2008

if you can put the check valve on the vertical then you will know it is doing its job. It would be a good idea to try and make things a bit straighter. You should also make sure no one is flushing anything thicker than T/P. I have replaced many pumps because people love their Wipes. The pumped I installed was humming till I kicked it. It drained the pit. Then I removed about 24-30 Wipes. The pump was a week old.

Redwood · Jan 30, 2008

I hope your bill impressed them not to do that again.

Herk · Jan 30, 2008

I think I would have installed the check valve vertically, then come back down and into the drain. Your hookup seems a bit unusual, partly because of the small amount of lift. Normally, the pipe goes up higher with the check valve directly above the pump, then loops back down into an existing drain, with the wye on about a 45 degree or higher tilt. So usually, there's some load on the check valve to keep it closed. Without the load, of course it would back up .

But there may be another problem, such as not enough slope in the mainline.

Raucina · Jan 30, 2008

I say you have a check valve problem. Thats not a sewage check valve as I see it, especially if its schedule 80, thats a pressure rating. You dont need a heavy duty pressure rating, you need a CV designed to pass turds. Water supply or pool check valves [thats what it looks like] - as you might imagine- are not intended for ca-ca to shoot through.

I use a ball check valve 1 or 2 pipe sizes larger than the discharge, or a Zoeller sewage check valve. And yes, vertical would be safer with your low head application, then loop back to the discharge.

DEC · Jan 31, 2008

I went to Zoeller web site and the check valve I have looks exactly like their PVC sewage check valve internally as well as externally. The design of that sched 80 valve is FULL FLOW. But, I am going to rework the piping, place the check directly off the 2 inch pvc discharge pipe, get rid of the 90s and plum the piping above the main sewage line and loop down into it. Hey for a few $$ the test of re-arranged piping is minor and something I can do right now.

I do have a question for you on a ball check valve. You don't see any problems with TP sticking between the ball and seat allowing flow back to the pit? I am asking cause I may try one. The original check valve was placed on the horizontal, and it was one of the cheap ones you buy at WalMart....

Prashster · Jan 31, 2008

If a gentle tap starts it going, my intuition says it's not a blockage; it seems like a check valve problem.

I use the same check valve you're using. I was counselled to use a 'full swing' check valve, which is what mine is and your's looks like. I'm not a plumber, but a ball check valve wouldn't allow full flow of the solids, and it seems a less intuitive choice for an ejector.

Dumb question: is the orientation arrow UP on the cv? Not sure that's the prob - just something else to check. Somehow, 'solids' might be sticking around the valve causing it to stick slightly. If you mounted it vertically, there'd always be a column of water on top of the cv which might prevent solids from drying and sticking the valve. (Just brainstorming here).

At any rate, if it were me, I'd disassemble the discharge completely and inspect the line and the cv for sticking and blockage. Then I'd reassemble with the cv vertical and I'd minimize/sweep out the turns.

Reminds me of that Beatles song:
"While My Discharge Gently Sweeps"

(I think it was on the Brown album...)

SumppumpPimp · Jan 31, 2008

Is the weep hole you drilled in the discharge pipe under water when the punp turns on? If it is you will need to drill another hole up higher on the pipe so that the water level never reaches it!

When this pump is running but not pumping, can you see the pump at all? If not, and the next time this happens, you need to look and see if the weep hole has anything spraying out of it, if there isn't, it might be clogged and causing the pump to "air lock"! Just clean out the weep hole if it isn't spraying. If the the spray is coming out of the weep hole, then you will know that the problem is definitely from the check valve and on.

Last but not least, it could be that the pump has a capacitor and it has went bad, not all the way bad but pretty close, as to when you tap the pump it comes on. That tap is just enough to get the motor started. I really doubt that this is the problem, but I have seen some weird stuff with pumps!

Patrick88 · Jan 31, 2008

Redwood said:
I hope your bill impressed them not to do that again.

Ya they were so happy

The funny part was nobody in the house uses Wipes

I guess the magic wipe fairy put them in a sealed sewage pit for later use.

I like the nice brass check valves. They do swing nicer than the plastic ones.

DEC · Feb 1, 2008

prashter,
check valve is right side up. If you look at the picture you will see a pencil mark on top of the valve. Like most I am not dumb but I do stuff like the pencil mark to prevent making those mistakes

I am switching the check valve to vertical.

I will drill a second hole above the water line. I had originally drilled the vent hole above the water line and still had this problem. Thinking it was getting plugged and drying out due to not being submerged, I installed a new disch pipe with the hole below water.

I am getting great feedback on this problem, even had call from Jim of septicprotector.com and we discussed lint from the washer causing the problem. After the last few overflows I did note alot of washer lint. Could be plugging the vent hole, could be sticking the check. But the first year plus we were here this unit worked fine and we always had a washer.

I can make some piping changes and put the pics up, I am also still going to clean the main line. Hope the city has no problems on their end cause it could get messy!!

Sewage Pump/Basin question

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