R
Rancher
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Hmmm, perhaps a propane torch and a beer can filled with water?
Rancher
Rancher
Pressure tank, CSV & pressure cutoff questions
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Speedbump
Active Member
My only experience with Poly Pipe was when I lived in Michigan over 25 years ago. We used it in 2" and 4" installations between the pitless and the house. Never down the well. Back then only the bad guys used the Poly to save a few bucks over galvanized. I remember quite a few pumps that could not be pulled when hung on poly because the pumps got glued to the casing and nothing could be unscrewed (like you could with galvanized) to go down with some tools and bang the pump loose.
The only problem I had with Poly 100 - 125 psi was where it went on the male adapter at the pitless. If you didn't put something like a board under the pipe a foot or so out from the pitless the ground would settle and cut the pipe at the MA.
I can tell you that with concentric piping, the one inch pipe inside the two inch pipe could be sucked flat if you didn't use 125 psi or better. Suction on the inside of the one inch and pressure on the outside of the one inch was all it would take.
bob...
The only problem I had with Poly 100 - 125 psi was where it went on the male adapter at the pitless. If you didn't put something like a board under the pipe a foot or so out from the pitless the ground would settle and cut the pipe at the MA.
I can tell you that with concentric piping, the one inch pipe inside the two inch pipe could be sucked flat if you didn't use 125 psi or better. Suction on the inside of the one inch and pressure on the outside of the one inch was all it would take.
bob...
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Bob NH
In the Trades
All the worry about heating poly pipe with a torch is ridiculous. It certainly isn't heat that causes failure.
Consider that one of the best ways of connecting poly pipe is a fused butt joint, which requires that the pipe be MELTED and forced together right at the melting point. If heating it to more than 200 degrees was going to cause failure they would all be susceptible to such failures.
The idea of heating the end of the pipe in a soup can might be a problem in trying to heat the end of a 2" pipe being repaired in a hole. You would probably spill the water out of the soup can and manage to heat only the lower part of the pipe.
Keep that torch handy, preferably with a flame spreader.
Consider that one of the best ways of connecting poly pipe is a fused butt joint, which requires that the pipe be MELTED and forced together right at the melting point. If heating it to more than 200 degrees was going to cause failure they would all be susceptible to such failures.
The idea of heating the end of the pipe in a soup can might be a problem in trying to heat the end of a 2" pipe being repaired in a hole. You would probably spill the water out of the soup can and manage to heat only the lower part of the pipe.
Keep that torch handy, preferably with a flame spreader.
R
Rancher
Guest
Doesn't anyone use heat guns?
Rancher
Rancher
Can't count on a heat gun. Don't always have power at the well site.
Speedbump
Active Member
Not only that, but at the new well site there is almost never any water.
bob...
bob...
Raucina
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Why not someone ask ENDOT for their opinion on the subject?
The pipe fusers are electric and heat just a bit of the ends to a specific [i.e. engineered] temp. I don't think its a good comparison to goober with a torch.
Every jobsite has a heat gun at the back of their pickup.
In the trench: hot water in the soup can, an old sock on-in the pipe end, hot water poured on that. Getting the pipe to about 100 degrees is more than enough.
However, I dont know anyone that would make a joint in the trench unless you have a shield up. You make the joints on surface and toss the string in later.
The pipe fusers are electric and heat just a bit of the ends to a specific [i.e. engineered] temp. I don't think its a good comparison to goober with a torch.
Every jobsite has a heat gun at the back of their pickup.
In the trench: hot water in the soup can, an old sock on-in the pipe end, hot water poured on that. Getting the pipe to about 100 degrees is more than enough.
However, I dont know anyone that would make a joint in the trench unless you have a shield up. You make the joints on surface and toss the string in later.
Bob NH
In the Trades
You make joints in the trench or hole if you have to replace a valve or fitting. I have seen people standing in water in a 4 ft deep hole trying to replace a valve while someone keeps the pump running.
Gary Slusser
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You said anytime you run PE horizontal... we run it underground from the well pitless to the pressure tank inside the basement of the house. Just like water companies do for service line on their city water systems from the street into the house. And we hang submersible pumps to 500' on it attached to a male adapter x insert fitting on the pitless.
Speedbump, we tamp under the pitless outside the casing. We have 6" wells for our 4" submersible pumps and wonder why anyone would put a 4" (3 7/8" really) sub in a 4" well and not expect to have a problem getting the pump out!!
We use 125 psi for jet pump drop pipe and 160 or 200 psi for underground and hanging submersible pumps.
Sammyhydro11
In the Trades
Gary,
that is way funny because that is exactly the type of person i thought he could be. I have come across way too many of those people and they do nothing but cause headaches. It's just like dealing with the know it all who comes on by while your fixing his neighbors well. Just because they were able to pull off a simple repair on their own well or have a buddy who is a plumber, they think they know the ins and outs of the well business and how it all works. I used to correct these people when they blurt out dumb ass remarks about water systems, but realized it was just a waist of money because if i make the guy look bad he wont call me to fix his screw ups. I make a lot of money fixing these peoples screw ups.
Sorry Raucine, i have never seen a plumber with a heat gun for poly pipe and don't ever think i will see " The boiling Method " either. And i have never seen anyone or ever heard of any one bending pipe in an exhaust pipe. Who gives a rats ass about ENDOT. Those things are written for people like yourself who are begging for trouble.
Sammy
that is way funny because that is exactly the type of person i thought he could be. I have come across way too many of those people and they do nothing but cause headaches. It's just like dealing with the know it all who comes on by while your fixing his neighbors well. Just because they were able to pull off a simple repair on their own well or have a buddy who is a plumber, they think they know the ins and outs of the well business and how it all works. I used to correct these people when they blurt out dumb ass remarks about water systems, but realized it was just a waist of money because if i make the guy look bad he wont call me to fix his screw ups. I make a lot of money fixing these peoples screw ups.
Sorry Raucine, i have never seen a plumber with a heat gun for poly pipe and don't ever think i will see " The boiling Method " either. And i have never seen anyone or ever heard of any one bending pipe in an exhaust pipe. Who gives a rats ass about ENDOT. Those things are written for people like yourself who are begging for trouble.
Sammy
R
Rancher
Guest
Because when the pump pulls loose from the fitting and falls to the bottom and I sue you, I will tell my attorney that you used a torch to heat up the pipe and ENDOT specifically says not to use that method.sammyhydro11 said:
Rancher
ENDOT has to CTA with a statement like that.
A nice way for the legal department to prevent loss.
Many manufactures write nice instructions that are very vague and meaningless, leaving the installer hanging.
Pump installers, and water service installers will never carry around warm pots of water, when there is no water to be had, and no way to heat it.
All it takes is the the far end of the flame from a torch to warm it slightly.
Heck, I use a torch on my hands to warm them when it's cold outside.
Course, I'm a pro, so I know not to get so close that I give myself third degree burns.
Maybe rancher can hire out with a pot and stove and warm poly pipe ends.
A nice way for the legal department to prevent loss.
Many manufactures write nice instructions that are very vague and meaningless, leaving the installer hanging.
Pump installers, and water service installers will never carry around warm pots of water, when there is no water to be had, and no way to heat it.
All it takes is the the far end of the flame from a torch to warm it slightly.
Heck, I use a torch on my hands to warm them when it's cold outside.
Course, I'm a pro, so I know not to get so close that I give myself third degree burns.
Maybe rancher can hire out with a pot and stove and warm poly pipe ends.
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Sammyhydro11
In the Trades
Yeah you can flush that EDOT crap down the toilet as far as i'm concerned. I have made thousands and thousands of connections with poly pipe using a torch and have had zero problems.You guys have no business poking your noses into our business by pretending to know what the heck you are talking about. The day i see an idiot walking around with a beer can and a torch to heat poly pipe is the day i meet Rancher, hell freezes over, and horses start flying.
Sammy
Sammy
Sammyhydro11
In the Trades
Boo Hoo Hoo Raucina.....are u crying now??? Poor Raucina, all of a sudden you have a problem with people making comments about you. You have been blasting us this whole entire time and make it difficult to give professional advice. Your profession has been exposed and we know you have no credentials to back up what you say. No wonder why you and Rancher back each other up, your one in the same.
Sorry I missed that one. Well........that would work I guess.
But how do you empty the can to start with?
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Sammyhydro11
In the Trades
I would have to empty about 15 of those by drinking the contents and maybe then i would be able to stand being laughed at by those watching me heat pipe with hot water.
Sammy
Sammy
R
Rancher
Guest
You heat it with that torch that you shouldn't be using to heat the pipe with, and I always have 5 gallons of water in my truck, plus a water bottle.
Rancher
Raucina
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Portable hot water heater!
Well, the self appointed masters have solved the problem again: You drink those 15 cans of beer, and you carry your hot water around in your built in lobster pot. Now, gary and sammy, you won't be sticking your fingers in the pipe to test temperature, you'll be aiming a [small] flexible tube and putting that 98 degree water right where its needed.
Benefits: pre-engineered temperature of around 98 degrees, maybe a little higher if you have a cold. Fail safe for beginners. Water always on hand [or in hand] . Water dispersal device always in trench with you [we hope]
Maybe Bobnh can give us figures for amount of beer needed per joint based on diameter of poly pipe and ambient outside temperature. No need to get drunk just to warm a pipe.
I'll forward this to Endot Co. for their review and get back to you friendly guys. Gotta go bulldoze a few pads and pour some foundations.
Well, the self appointed masters have solved the problem again: You drink those 15 cans of beer, and you carry your hot water around in your built in lobster pot. Now, gary and sammy, you won't be sticking your fingers in the pipe to test temperature, you'll be aiming a [small] flexible tube and putting that 98 degree water right where its needed.
Benefits: pre-engineered temperature of around 98 degrees, maybe a little higher if you have a cold. Fail safe for beginners. Water always on hand [or in hand] . Water dispersal device always in trench with you [we hope]
Maybe Bobnh can give us figures for amount of beer needed per joint based on diameter of poly pipe and ambient outside temperature. No need to get drunk just to warm a pipe.
I'll forward this to Endot Co. for their review and get back to you friendly guys. Gotta go bulldoze a few pads and pour some foundations.
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Gary Slusser
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Hey Terry, if you didn't do it, do you have any idea who keeps editing my posts?
Man I was trying to remember where I put my phone to call the local memory loss folks thinking I hadn't typed the slumlord bulldozer thing when I thought I had, and all of a sudden I see Raucina quoted it, so I did type it!
That's not funny.
And now the thread looks like HE made it up! And now he says: "Gotta go bulldoze a few pads and pour some foundations." Now I didn't mention pads and foundations... did I?
This editing has been done the last few days in a few threads I've posted in and I think I'm losing my mind. It seems personal, by a faceless nameless politically correct, and maybe too sensitive, persona. Don't tell me it's the moderator Raucina suffers from but can you make them stop. lol
Man I was trying to remember where I put my phone to call the local memory loss folks thinking I hadn't typed the slumlord bulldozer thing when I thought I had, and all of a sudden I see Raucina quoted it, so I did type it!
That's not funny.
And now the thread looks like HE made it up! And now he says: "Gotta go bulldoze a few pads and pour some foundations." Now I didn't mention pads and foundations... did I?
This editing has been done the last few days in a few threads I've posted in and I think I'm losing my mind. It seems personal, by a faceless nameless politically correct, and maybe too sensitive, persona. Don't tell me it's the moderator Raucina suffers from but can you make them stop. lol
Sammyhydro11
In the Trades
Yeah Raucina, fail safe for beginners and thats exactly what you are. I would stick to your concrete pouring and leave the water well advice to those who know what they are talking about. My parents warned me about people like yourself. " Don't ever get into a wrestling match with a pig because you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it".
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