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Thread: Making an old cleanout into a new drain

  1. #16
    Plumber patrick88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumbingpros View Post
    Thanks for your responses, everyone. Okay - I accept that it's not code, but is it dangerous?? And if not, where should we put the vent pipe? Thanks.
    It is dangerous as far as sewer backing up into your house and getting you and your family sick. You should plumb the sink drain with the vent for it after the trap. The toilet with a 2" vent after the closet bend and twin the two vents together. Having a drawing and pic's would help everybody pointing out the real placement.

    I was just hoping to retake the thread for you.

    That fool hijacked it and will cause himself major sewer back ups. He came looking for advice but was really looking for somebody to tell him what he wanted. If he was my customer I would walk out the door. It is not worth bothering with people that think they know what they are doing. There is a reason plumbers need to be licensed. That reason is to protect the health of people. His neighbors should report him for causing a potential health hazard.
    I'm just starting to work with an old friend of mine to bring solar electric and hot water systems, wind turbines, Flex Fuel Boilers, batteries, hydroponic gardening, books, pellet grills and more. Also the parts for DIY installation.

  2. #17
    DIY Junior Member plumbingpros's Avatar
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    r-bob, take some advice from the plumbingpros: get your own thread!

    Thanks for the reply, Patrick. I think we will investigate removing enough concrete to make a proper connection. And, per Herk's advice, we'll try to keep the cleanout as well.

    I'll post a pic later after we rethink our design.

  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member DTony's Avatar
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    Based on the conversation above, and since I pulled a permit to finish my basement, I am guessing I will have to replace this cleanout tee to add a line. Do you have a recommendation on how to tie into this line? I want to add a kitchen sink in my basement. This is the best place to tie into the main line. My sink is approx. 18-20 ft away(all horizontal run) so I am wondering your thoughts on how to do this? It looks like I would have enough room to just cut this joint out and do it right. What do you recommend for a joint design? The line will be coming in from left through the wall. Also, are there any issues running 1 1/2 inch this far horizontally? It is just for the one sink. Given the distance and 1/4" drop per foot, the new line will be approx. 3" above the clean out. Name:  2014-01-25_21-52-10_663b.jpg
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Size:  26.4 KB. Thanks!
    Last edited by DTony; 01-25-2014 at 08:17 PM.

  4. #19
    DIY Senior Member houptee's Avatar
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    DTony maybe you can use a double WYE in place of that flush clean-out fitting.
    I needed a 4" double wye and the big box stores did not carry it. I had to get it from a plumbing supply house.
    Last edited by Terry; 01-26-2014 at 09:04 AM.

  5. #20
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    Dislike adding onto an old thread, but a sink line must be 2". Replace the clean out with a double sanitary tee. Reduce to 2" on one side and 4" clean out adapter on the other. The sink trap MUST have a separate vent.

  6. #21
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houptee View Post
    DTony maybe you can use a double WYE in place of that flush clean-out fitting.
    I needed a 4" double wye and the big box stores did not carry it. I had to get it from a plumbing supply house.
    A Wye is not the proper fitting for going from horizontal to vertical. Like cacher pointed out, a San-T is the way to go.
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  7. #22
    Master Plumber Caduceus's Avatar
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    The above diagram from rosem637 does not apply to this situation as the kitchen will need to be independently vented and does not rely on 'stack venting'.
    Do as cacher_chick recommended.

  8. #23
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
    The above diagram from rosem637 does not apply to this situation as the kitchen will need to be independently vented and does not rely on 'stack venting'.
    Do as cacher_chick recommended.

    The diagram was used as an illustration to show that A Wye is not the proper fitting for going from horizontal to vertical. Not an actual stack with a combo and a san-t stacked on top each other

  9. #24
    Master Plumber Caduceus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosem637 View Post
    The diagram was used as an illustration to show that A Wye is not the proper fitting for going from horizontal to vertical. Not an actual stack with a combo and a san-t stacked on top each other
    Actually, a wye combo going from stack to branch is preferred if the horizontal branch is vented at the fixture. A sanitary tee acting in continuous waste and vent fashion is used for just that purpose...continuous waste and vent. If a wye combo on a vertical stack or double wye can be installed, then that is the preferred method.

  10. #25
    DIY Senior Member houptee's Avatar
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    I thought a wye can be used either horizontally or vertically for a change of direction?

    Per Bert Polks guide:
    Double combination y-1/8 bend.
    This fitting is used to connect a
    Horizontal drains to a vertical
    stack .

  11. #26
    Master Plumber Caduceus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houptee View Post
    I thought a wye can be used either horizontally or vertically for a change of direction?

    Per Bert Polks guide:
    Double combination y-1/8 bend.
    This fitting is used to connect a
    Horizontal drains to a vertical
    stack .
    You CAN use a wye combo for a change of direction. What was not made clear by the image posted above was that the wye combo cannot be used as a continued drain and vent. The top of the image shows continuous waste and vent. The lower part of the image shows the wye combo being 'prohibited' if you are trying to vent a drain through the horizontal to vertical connection. If you use a wye combo, you must have a vent before it for the fixture trap.
    This is what happens when information is given with no background on interpreting the information.
    You will still find inspectors and code instructors who think that a wye combo is completely illegal for a horizontal to vertical drain connection, and a tee is the only acceptable method. Somehow this same info is leeching into code books and plumbing mythology is ending up in print as a fact.
    Good plumbing practice relies on perpetuating good information and over the years the same misinformation is being repeated by lazy minded people because it's the easy way to reply and sound educated.
    It's a shame that this is still happening and a skilled trade is dying.
    Last edited by Caduceus; 01-28-2014 at 11:55 AM.

  12. #27
    DIY Senior Member houptee's Avatar
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    What about a toilet coming in horizontally with a double wye and other fixtures on the opposite side of wye with vent out the top?
    Terry posted in a different thread that a double sani tee with newer toilets splashes across the double sani tee, and a double wye is better in that situation.
    Since a toilet would not have a vent prior to the double wye is that technically prohibited?

  13. #28
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    Houptee, back to back fixtures should be on a double fixture fitting, not a double wye. The wye would require an additional vent or re-vent, regardless of the trap to vent distance.

  14. #29
    DIY Senior Member houptee's Avatar
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    Oh that screws me because I was planning to redo my upstairs bathroom that had been tied into a 4" vertical stack that continues up thru the roof.

    It has a cast iron long turn combo wye laying flat on its side, with the toilet, lav, tub, and kitchen, all coming into the long turn end, then out the end of the combo a street 90 down into the stack, and off other end, another street 90 up the vent.

    I was going to redo the cast iron in 4" PVC with the toilet flange in 4" dumping into one side of a 4" vertical double wye, 4" vent in center up to the roof, and then dump the lav, tub, kitchen into the other side of the wye but with a 3" bushing.

    My thinking was the toilet would flow down a wye much better than a double sani tee without splashing across and get enough vent air since its 4".

    With the other drains dumping from a 3" pipe into a 4" wye, with 4" vent in center, I thought that was plenty of air space, and the wye made all the drains at the same height so no wet venting is above the wye.

    The kitchen line coming in will have a separate vent, but the bathroom lav and tub is not vented due to its so close to the stack and the wye I was going to drop into.

    So I guess that would not be code compliant using a vertical wye with vent in center, but a double sani tee would be?

  15. #30
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
    You CAN use a wye combo for a change of direction.
    Yes, but the change of direction has to be a vertical drain to a horizontal drain or a horizontal drain to a horizontal drain.

    Using a Wye-combo to go from horizontal to vertical in a no.
    Last edited by rosem637; 01-28-2014 at 07:39 PM.

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