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Thread: Making an old cleanout into a new drain

  1. #31
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houptee View Post
    I thought a wye can be used either horizontally or vertically for a change of direction?

    Per Bert Polks guide: Double combination y-1/8 bend. This fitting is used to connect a Horizontal drains to a vertical stack .
    double fixture cross
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  3. #33
    Master Plumber Caduceus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosem637 View Post
    Yes, but the change of direction has to be a vertical drain to a horizontal drain or a horizontal drain to a horizontal drain.

    Using a Wye-combo to go from horizontal to vertical in a no.
    I don't think that you get it yet. A double wye combo or a wye combo is allowable if the fixture is vented before the combo as cacher_chick also pointed out. It should also be mentioned that the double fixture cross shown next to the double santee has a vent connection in the center of the fitting that sits below the top of the connecting horizontal pipes. This is not acceptable when determining hydraulic grade on trap to vent distances. It may slip past an inspector or two, but it because of the elevated flow line of the fitting, it now takes on the characteristic of a twin wye combo.
    If your going to preach codes you should also mention the need for a cleanout on fixtures connected with a double tee on the vertical portion of the pipe. Using a double wye combo doesn't require a clean out because there is no risk of jumping the fitting and entering the nearby fixture.
    When you did your drawings in plumbing school, rosem637, and during your journeyman or masters testing, these details were required so that plans and permits could be filed and isometric drawing could be properly interpreted.

  4. #34
    DIY Member rosem637's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
    It should also be mentioned that the double fixture cross has a vent connection in the center of the fitting that sits below the top of the connecting horizontal pipes. This is not acceptable when determining hydraulic grade on trap to vent distances. It may slip past an inspector or two, but it because of the elevated flow line of the fitting, it now takes on the characteristic of a twin wye combo.
    I am not a plumber. The info you quoted was interesting. I have never notice that the tap on top the DFC does sit below the the top of the horizontal lines that would connect to it.

    I think that Double Fixture Cross, Double San-T's and Double Wye Combos are the most difficult to understand when and where to use.

  5. #35
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    Name:  temp3.jpg
Views: 58
Size:  10.3 KBThere's your problem.

  6. #36
    Master Plumber Caduceus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reach4 View Post
    Name:  temp3.jpg
Views: 58
Size:  10.3 KBThere's your problem.
    I like the way that you pointed that out. For the transition to fill with water as depicted in the illustration, the stack would have to be filled with water. That is why stack venting of water closets with a wye combo is preferred and on our journeyman and master's tests to draw out a plan without the 45 off of the stack is a point reduction and implies a tee is in use.
    some codes would refer to that as s-trapping a toilet, but as stated in the past, toilets do not operate on the same principles as a standard fixture trap.

  7. #37
    DIY Senior Member houptee's Avatar
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    What if you had a toilet go direct from the flange with a 45, then about 2' of pipe, then directly into the wye hub, so no horizontal arm at all and no 1/8 bend at the wye?

  8. #38
    Master Plumber Caduceus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houptee View Post
    What if you had a toilet go direct from the flange with a 45, then about 2' of pipe, then directly into the wye hub, so no horizontal arm at all and no 1/8 bend at the wye?
    Then you would have a stack vented water closet. Congratulations!

  9. #39
    DIY Senior Member houptee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
    Then you would have a stack vented water closet. Congratulations!
    But the previous posts said you would need a vent or a revent before the wye.
    Is that only for fixtures other than a water closet?

  10. #40
    Master Plumber Caduceus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houptee View Post
    But the previous posts said you would need a vent or a revent before the wye.
    Is that only for fixtures other than a water closet?
    Yes. Toilets are different than other fixtures, but there are a number of other codes that apply to many possible installations of toilet drains and vents that cannot be thoroughly covered on a forum. That's why we have plumbing schools.

  11. #41
    DIY Senior Member houptee's Avatar
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    The questions I still have:

    1)In the Toto recommended double WYE fitting arrangement, if the center is the only vent, and you had other fixtures also tied into the toilet arm before the WYE, (washing the toilet line), is that vent still a vent for the other fixtures (the tub, lav, washer) or is it now a partial S trap at that WYE requiring a revent somewhere back into the vent above the WYE?

    2) If you left it as a Double Sani Tee would it not need reventing with same configuration?

    3) Does Toto assume only two toilets are tied into that Double WYE no other fixtures involved?

    4) I thought this forum was Love Plumbing University and I could get Continuing Learning Credits on here???

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