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Thread: 1-1/2" deep multi-gang electrical boxes

  1. #16
    I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP) Lakee911's Avatar
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    You're right ... the grounds are all counted once, but still multiplied by the 2cu in per conductor for #14. So that makes it 8.

    I don't see how the device would be double volume allowance though. It should only be 2 for a single device, no? I'm not arguing (for once)...just trying to learn

  2. #17
    Electrician Chris75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakee911 View Post
    You're right ... the grounds are all counted once, but still multiplied by the 2cu in per conductor for #14. So that makes it 8.

    I don't see how the device would be double volume allowance though. It should only be 2 for a single device, no? I'm not arguing (for once)...just trying to learn

    if you take a look at 314.16 (B)(4) Device or Equipment Fill

    For each yoke or strap containing one or more devices or equipment, a double volume allowance in accordance with Table 314.16(B) shall be made for each yoke or strap based on the largest conductor connected to a device(s) or equipment supported by that yoke or strap.

  3. #18
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakee911 View Post
    That's kind of harsh, jw. That third one does not, from all the research that I've done, exist in a 1-1/2" depth. So, I challenge you to find me one.

    Didn't mean to sound harsh I meant it to sound funny.

    Looking for one of those 1 1/2 inch deep go to Lowe's Home Improvement on highway 64/49 Asheboro, North Carolina and they have them by the case.

  4. #19
    I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP) Lakee911's Avatar
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    Default We got a winner!

    Ok then. Ha ha

    Ok, so I went to bLowes, in Columbus, OH and I measured these boxes. Unfortunately, these are measured 1.5" deep from the inside and once you add the back and the plaster ring they are approximately 1-11/16 deep. Boo

    So, I thought that another option would be to use a plastic 4"x4" box and sand or cut 3/16" of an inch off the face to make up for the added height. This would doable, but not ideal for more than a box or two.

    I did, however, stumble upon this Raco box (http://www.myproship.com/index.aspx?...=1&sku=6228373) at Lowes. It is exactly 1.5" inches deep, on the outside, and it is gangable, if that is the correct term. A screw comes off the side and the side comes off. Multiple boxes can then be attached to eachother. You can put as many together as you would like. The plaster ears come off too to make a standard box. They're $1.98 each.

    So, ok I'm good. I'm done. Thanks!

  5. #20
    I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP) Lakee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris75 View Post
    if you take a look at 314.16 (B)(4) Device or Equipment Fill

    For each yoke or strap containing one or more devices or equipment, a double volume allowance in accordance with Table 314.16(B) shall be made for each yoke or strap based on the largest conductor connected to a device(s) or equipment supported by that yoke or strap.

    I'm not sure I understand that, but my code book is at work. I'll look at it tomorrow. Is that 2008 or 2005?

    Jason

  6. #21
    Electrician Chris75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakee911 View Post
    I'm not sure I understand that, but my code book is at work. I'll look at it tomorrow. Is that 2008 or 2005?

    Jason
    2005, its basically saying you need to add a double allowance for box fill... the number you use is based on the AWG going to the device... for example, # 14 going to a receptacle would be 4 cu., #12 would be 4.5 cu

    14 awg is 2.00
    12 awg is 2.25
    10 awg is 2.50
    Last edited by Chris75; 01-14-2008 at 05:46 PM.

  7. #22
    I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP) Lakee911's Avatar
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    Ok. I gotchya. I was misreading it over and over... thanks.

    Jason

  8. #23
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakee911 View Post
    I did, however, stumble upon this Raco box (http://www.myproship.com/index.aspx?...=1&sku=6228373) at Lowes. It is exactly 1.5" inches deep, on the outside, and it is gangable, if that is the correct term. A screw comes off the side and the side comes off. Multiple boxes can then be attached to eachother. You can put as many together as you would like. The plaster ears come off too to make a standard box. They're $1.98 each.

    So, ok I'm good. I'm done. Thanks!
    There's a minor problem with the conduit knockouts. They'll require a cable bushing, and the bushing and cable will come out of the box into the drywall. You'll have to take that into account when you cut the drywall. Other than that, they're a very useful box in this application -- you can use Tapcons to mount them directly on the block, if your AHJ will allow it.
    Last edited by Mikey; 01-15-2008 at 04:35 AM.

  9. #24
    I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP) Lakee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    There's a minor problem with the conduit knockouts. They'll require a cable bushing, and the bushing and cable will come out of the box into the drywall. You'll have to take that into account when you cut the drywall. Other than that, they're a very useful box in this application -- you can use Tapcons to mount them directly on the block, if your AHJ will allow it.
    Hey Mikey,
    I don't think that the clamps will be too much trouble. The clamps are slightly offset and that will help.

    I plan on using a powder actuated fastener into the poured concrete wall--should be fun.

    Thanks,
    Jason

  10. #25
    Jack of all trades frenchie's Avatar
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    If you're furring it out with just 1"... how're you going to keep your wires 1 1/4" back from the face of the framing?

    Funny, there's a thread about this at JLC right now.
    Master Plumber Mark:

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  11. #26
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    NEC 300.15(E) permits use of " A wiring device with integral enclosure identified for the use, . . " to be used without boxes. Such devices are not common, are more expensive than standard devices, and tend to be used in manufactured housing.

    You would need to find switches and outlets that are "identified of the use" in a residence. I think finding ways to use boxes is the better solution but there is an alternative.

  12. #27
    I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP) Lakee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchie View Post
    If you're furring it out with just 1"... how're you going to keep your wires 1 1/4" back from the face of the framing?

    Funny, there's a thread about this at JLC right now.
    Actually, I'm going to put on those nail protector doohickeys where they cross the framing to prevent screws from hitting the wire. I think this aleviates the 1-1/4" requirement, no?

    Jason

  13. #28
    Electrician Chris75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchie View Post
    If you're furring it out with just 1"... how're you going to keep your wires 1 1/4" back from the face of the framing?

    Funny, there's a thread about this at JLC right now.
    You only need 1 1/4 where the wires are likely to be hit, so if he runs the wires in the middle of the bay away from the framing he is fine.

  14. #29
    Jack of all trades frenchie's Avatar
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    Chris - So he has to go back up every time he needs to go over? How many holes is he going to wind up with in his joists?
    And he has to secure the wire within 12" of any box - how's he gonna do that in the middle? Tapcons? His only option is to use plates everywhere.

    For 1" of extra space in the room? Seems sort of silly...



    Lakelee - instead of messing with nail protectors everywhere... why not just frame it in 2x, or better yet 1-5/8 steel studs? Leave a 1/2" free space behind, run the wires there - no worries.
    Master Plumber Mark:

    there is nothing better than the
    manly smell of WD 40 in the air
    while banging away on brass with a chisel and hammer...

    it smells like......victory......

    do not hit your thumb...
    __________________
    Just so everyone's clear: I'm the POODLE in the picture ("french", get it?) The hot woman is my wife.

  15. #30
    DIY Member enosez's Avatar
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    All of this searching for the box and trying to make it work.......wouldnt it be easier and quicker to just fir out the wall and be done with it.

    No cutting down boxes, no breaking block, no special order boxes.

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