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Thread: Remodeling bathroom: part 1 of PVC piping complete (see pic)

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    DIY Junior Member looknohands's Avatar
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    Cool Remodeling bathroom: part 1 of PVC piping complete (see pic)

    I'm remodeling our half-bath into a full bathroom, moving the toilet and sink to a different location, and building a tiled shower.

    I posted my PVC rough-in plan here a few days ago: http://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1731

    Worked out Plan B today. Still have to extend the 3" drain to the toilet location. Another thing I have to do, that wasn't on the plan, is build the shower drain, which will hook up to a 2" drain outside the photo.

    So here's the execution: http://www.looknohands.com/rough-in-part-1.jpg.
    This is my first plumbing job, so go easy on me ;-)

    - Erik

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default drain

    A couple of comments. I would not have used the existing flange as a "coupling". It would not be an "approved" joint and I am not sure how you even made the connection to it. The "rubber" tee into the vent would not be an approved connection if it is actually an all rubber tee rather than a rubber connection to a PVC tee. How are you going to conceal all of this above the floor piping?

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    DIY Junior Member looknohands's Avatar
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    Thanks for your quick reply.

    The 3" 90 elbow is cemented into an adapter that takes a 3" and is made to fit inside a 4" pipe. Below the existing flange is a 4" pipe, in which this adapter is cemented in place. It's a perfect fit, with the adapter sticking 2 inches into the 4" pipe below it.

    About the rubber T: I had no idea this was not an approved connection for the incoming vent. I could not find any information on it, and it was advertized and sold at Home Depot exactly in the way I used it: to be used as a replacement of a PVC 90 elbow in a drain or vent pipe. I was surprised it would have been allowed in a drain pipe, but I used it for the vent.

    The above-the-floor drain pipe along the wall is going to be boxed in. The current drywall against the studs is double-layer, because of which the pipe will stick out only 3 inches from the wall. It will be boxed in as a design element, with the wall section behind the vanity coming out this much as well -- lights coming out the side, cabinet space, etc. The final section of the 3" drain will be covered up by the shower floor which I will build over it.

    - Erik
    Last edited by looknohands; 03-28-2005 at 07:15 AM.

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    Plumber RioHyde's Avatar
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    I'm with hj on this. That 3" going into the existing toilet flange....I never imagined someone doing that until I saw the picture. The rubber tee....never listen to those people or how the advertise fittings. Their only goal is to sell you something whether its approved or not. You can use a pvc tee and a slip coupling there (note: last time I looked for one at the store mentioned they hadnt even heard of a slip coupling). I'm going to make an assumption that you'll have a raised floor in the bathroom or perhaps a rear outlet toilet. I'm also assuming you're not having it inspected as it wont pass even if you change the rubber tee. The connection to the existing toilet flange is a major no-no.

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    DIY Junior Member looknohands's Avatar
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    I will replace that rubber T with a PVC one. Home Depot indeed has not heard of slip couplings -- I wanted to use that instead of the rubber coupling on the other end -- but I can connect the new PVC T with a rubber coupling on one of its legs.

    About the 3" going into the existing flange: note that it is not connected to the flange itself, it is connected to the 4" pipe underneath it. Why would that be a major no-no? The flange is still in place above that because I can't get it out of there.
    - Erik
    Last edited by looknohands; 03-28-2005 at 11:06 AM.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    A pvc tee can be installed using "shielded couplings". They have a stainless wrap around the rubber that prevents "shifting".

    Glueing PVC to PVC should work on the floor, if the fittings are the right sweep.
    You can use a medium 90 to go from horizontal to vertical.
    On the low side that we can't see, the sweep would need to be a long sweep, vertical to horizontal.

    I know from your earlier post, that you will be using a wall hung toilet toward the left.

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    DIY Junior Member looknohands's Avatar
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    Yes, I used one of those shielded couplings already. I have another one still, which I'll use for the installation of the new T.

    Underneath the concrete, under the flange, the 4" pipe makes a 90 long sweep towards the main drain.

    The wall-mounted toilet is a Duravit Darling, from which the drain will come down under a 45 angle to transition into horizontal with a 45 elbow.

    - Erik

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    Plumber RioHyde's Avatar
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    It wouldnt pass here because a toilet flange is just that and is not an approved fitting for joining two sections of pipe. I know its a 4x3 flange capable of being glued inside of 4" PVC or onto 3" PVC, but as I said, it is not an approved fitting for joining two sections of pipe. Note that I'm talking about my part of the world (cincinnati). If it flies where you are....well I guess you're ok.

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    DIY Junior Member looknohands's Avatar
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    Right, I see what you mean.

    It's not that I glued a 4x3 flange into the 4" pipe, though. That flange was already there, and my piping is simply not touching it. What I did do is glue a straight coupler into the 4" pipe that's deeper below, and glued the 3" into that coupler. That coupler is not touching the flange, it's glued into the 4" pipe that's sticking up inside the bottom part of the flange.

    If you imagine the flange not being there, but instead just a 4" pipe connected to a 3" pipe with a straight coupler that fits inside the 4" and around the 3", then that should be an approved fitting, right?

    The only reason the flange is still there is because it's stuck being glued around the 4" pipe below. I also filed one edge of the flange down, so I could drop in the 90 deeper.

    I would be seriously disappointed if I didn't do it the proper way. I have been studying the code for several weeks before I got started, and the connection I have now is rock solid... :-(

    - Erik

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    I cannot see what is under the floor, but in most cases that 4" riser will be part of a 4x3 closet bend and reduce to a 3" horizontal pipe at the turn. The turn will be a square corner, not even the minimum radius of a short sweep elbow. If that is what you have, then that is why it is illegal, besides never having seen a 4x3 inside reducer other than a special cleanout cover.

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    DIY Junior Member looknohands's Avatar
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    It's a bit of a mystery to me what they used for the original flange back in 1997, as it does seem to be a short straight flange of unusual diameter (at the top somewhat larger than 4", not matching any of the sizes I've seen at Home Depot, with a even wider female end underneath it) that is connected around the straight end of a nice long sweep of 4" diameter pipe. Before connecting all this, I have looked at the inside of the 4" drain quite a bit and noticed it to be a longer 90 degree turn than the typical 4" 90 degree elbows.

    Thanks for all your feedback. I will have to change the rubber T, which I will do when I build the shower drain, since that will connect to the other vent coming out of that T. When I cut through that pipe, it should be fairly straightforward to put the PVC T in place.

    I'm curious to see what Home Depot has to say about selling rubber T's that we're not actually allowed to use...

    - Erik

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