Case 3000 Wall Mounted Toilet

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NE_JV

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What is the function of the plunger seat?

Thanks all I appreciate your help.

I definitely, have shut off the water valve as my water usage and bill would skyrocket given how much this toilet is flowing.

Sorry for my ignorance but what does the the plunger control (shown on my bottom picture)? My local plumbing supply store has the Case plunger and seat (not the toilet seat but the plunger seat :) ) for a few bucks but I don't want to be replacing something that isn't the problem. They have an entitre rebuild kit that I would have to hire to be installed which all in would be ~$400 so I suppose at that point I'll consider a new replacement Toto Drake.

Thanks again.
 

Jadnashua

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I'd have to see a picture, but there's some sort of valve that opens when you flush to drop water in to the bowl, and then the other that you showed pictures of to refill the toilet once it has flushed. My guess, and it's a guess, is the part that is cheap(er) is the part that moves and seals things when you flush, not the refill valve.

If, after you've shut the water supply off to the toilet, the water in the tank does not drop, that seal is working. If, as you're implying, the water keeps rising and flows down the overflow, then it is the fill valve that is the problem.

It's possible it could be rebuilt. If you can't do it, between the parts cost and the plumber to do it (if he's young, he may not know how!), you'd probably get better performance and definitely save on your water/sewer bill with a new toilet.
 

NE_JV

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Thanks guys.

I'll look more into the new toilet option but what research I've done indicates finding a replacement with the same bolt pattern is impossible and once you factor in opening up the wall to install a new support bracket you have spent more to install a new toilet. I'll keep researching.
 

WJcandee

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Okay, here's the skinny.

The folks who are saying just get a standard valve are off-base. If it works at all it would be a Kluge.

Those who are saying just get a Drake aren't aware that the Case/Briggs 3000 is a wall-mount toilet.

You can most likely fix the problem just by replacing the way-inexpensive plunger and seat in that valve, if you have the skills. Forget about the $400 rebuild kit. It's a bunch of work to do it and usually totally-unnecessary. There also aren't a lot of plumbers who want to take the time to do the job. If you had an HJ, then I would advise something else (i.e. he would be able to get you up and running). I have a guy I use now here on Long Island who just rebuilt two of them for a homeowner who loved them, but he charged what he was worth in labor and the total bill wasn't pretty. The homeowner expected it, but it wouldn't be viable for anyone other than a Case 3000 fan. They are cool toilets and if you can just fix it by replacing the plunger than it's worth keeping.

As to replacement, here's the deal. Your toilet uses a standard carrier with the standard bolt pattern. You almost certainly have a standard carrier in the wall. However, because the Case 3000 toilet only uses two of the bolts on the carrier, when it was installed, they removed the other two bolts and installed a special hanger for the Case onto the carrier. To replace the Case, you pull it off the wall, open the wall, remove the special Case hanger thingy, reinstall the two bolts that had been removed on the standard carrier, and you can mount any 4-bolt wall-mount toilet you want on there. Of the major brands like I list below, they all use the same standard bolt pattern that everyone has used for decades.

The bad news is that there aren't too many options.

The American Standard Glenwall is the one that Terry seems to install a lot of. It now comes with a Flushmate pressure-assist, so it does a decent job. http://www.homedepot.com/p/American...-in-White-2093-100-020/202499481#.Ul9SqTb-71E

Gerber makes a non-pressure-assist Maxwell wall-hung, but I have to wonder how good the flush is. http://www.gerberonline.com/item.aspx?itemid=2958

Mansfield makes a Quantum wall-hung pressure-assist with a Sloan Flushmate. (Do NOT get the EcoQuantum with the WDI Eco-Flush, because Terry labels all WDI Eco-Flush toilets "avoid" because the units have demonstrated exceptionally-poor reliability. The Sloan Flushmate ones are fine.) http://www.mansfieldplumbing.com/Product-Catalog/Commercial/Toilets/Quantum.aspx

Mansfield isn't a brand that gets recommended a lot on here, but I'm trying to be inclusive.

There is another brand, too, I think, with a wall-hung back-outlet, and it has just slipped my mind.

But like I say, the Glenwall is the one Terry installs the most.

Good luck.
 
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NE_JV

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Thank you

That is the advise I needed. Thank you very much. I will replace the plunger and seat tomorrow and if that doesn't work I'll get a plumber that can help assess replacing it all or putting a new one in. I may be back with a few questions along the way.

Thank you very much for taking the time to help me with this. I really appreciate you time.

briggs-case-3000-1964-03.jpg
 
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NE_JV

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Case 3000 Continuous Running Update

I replaced the Plunger and the seat (pictured) using the Ballock Body Repair Kit SP-47. It was ~$32.

Now all I have is the sound of silence.

Thank you all again for your help.

IMG_0581.jpg
 
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WJcandee

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What a great outcome, and for a somewhat-affordable price! (Very affordable compared to what the other approaches to fixing it would cost!) So happy we could help and that it all worked out!
 

Tatz

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Case 3000 Toilet Operation

I bought an older home about a year ago that has 2 case 3000 toilets. Needless to say I have spent some time researching (limited info) and replacing some parts, thanks to forums like this. I still have a few questions about these units though:

1) I have seen parts lists for these units, but is there any manual to describe how they should work (see below)?

2) What is the proper level (height) that the tank should fill to?

3) I notice (on at least 1 of the 2 toilets) that after a flush (even well after) trace amounts of water trickle from the bowl rim - the only way to see it is to put some paper around the rim and see it slowly moisten). Is this normal? What could be causing this? The plunger is making a good seal and I don't ever seem to ever hear water running.

4) On the same toilet, at the end of the tank fill, there seems to be air bubbles pushed out of the fill line for 2-3 seconds, then stops. Everything works ok, but this doesn't seem normal. Do I need a new fill valve assembly?

Sorry for all the questions - I'm still trying make sure these things are operating correctly without wasting any extra water (they are water hogs to begin with!)

Any additional help or information would be greatly appreciated.
 
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jcg

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I actually understand what a great gem I have in this toilet despite its age and difficulty with replacement parts. So much so that my bathroom needs some remodel. I just want to uninstall and reinstall this toilet. But I don't know how to start
 

robertmccrory

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We are remodelling the bathroom and decided this was our opportunity to finally get rid of this nightmare of a toilet, and we have run into the issue of the carrier not fitting a modern toilet. I've read on here about that are only supposed to be 2 bolts and that I need to adjust them to fit a new toilet; however, when I pulled it off there were four bolts and there doesn't seem to be any way to adjust it.

I'm looking into replacing it with a new carrier that has an in-wall tank but I'm not sure how the water input would work and how to remove the existing waste drain. Would I need a plumber to come back and run the water input so that it is inside the wall instead of outside? Does the waste drain require anything more that just unscrewing it and then sliding the new one down into the hole? Here is the model of carrier I am looking to replace it with:

I also haven't measured yet, but it doesn't look like I have anywhere close to the 24.5" of space width wise that the new carrier requires. Here is a photo of what I'm looking at removing:

WP_20141014_11_27_11_Pro.jpg


WP_20141014_11_27_26_Pro.jpg
 
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WJcandee

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Okay, so you have a few things confused.

First, if the toilet is a nightmare, it's only because it hasn't been maintained or adjusted by somebody who knew what they are doing. These are, at the end of the day, great toilets, for many reasons. However, most plumbers, even, don't understand them and don't bother to learn.

But if you really want to replace it, then let me offer some thoughts.

First, you're fundamentally-misunderstanding what's going on, which is totally-fine because you're not expected to know. What you have is a connection for a rear-discharge toilet with an outside-the-wall tank. Like many things in plumbing, there's kind of a standard for how these go in, across all manufacturers. For these toilets, there is a standard four-bolt carrier, which sits precisely where yours is. The Case uses two of the four bolts on the carrier and a special hanger. Remove the hanger and reinstall (or replace) the other two bolts (in case they were just cut down by the installer rather than removed), and you can install any standard outside-the-wall-tank rear-discharge toilet. Currently, I can think of three: the AS Glenwall, the Mansfield Quantum, and the Gerber Maxwell -- see links in my reply 44 above for more info.

The in-the-wall-tank toilets have a drain outlet that is connected higher, and there are two major tanks, the Toto and the Geberit. Once installed, either can carry a bowl from the other manufacturer (i.e. you can put a Toto bowl, like the wall-mount Aquia, on a Geberit tank; conversely, you can put a Duravit bowl (like the Starck 3 wall-mount) on a Toto tank). (Note that each of these has a typical floor-mount vertical discharge toilet of the same name; I am talking about the wall-hung bowls of these names.) So...if you want to go with the Toto tank that you link to, you're going to install it pretty much as if you're doing so from scratch, except you will have a drain pipe already in place, even if it's not the right height.

I'm not sure what you mean by "unscrewing" the waste pipe; I think it's going to be more complicated than that, and, yes, I think you probably need a plumber to do it. And yes, you need the water line to run to a different place than where yours is right now.

Your easiest solution is to use the existing setup to mount a Glenwall or Quantum or Maxwell. Second would be to find a decent plumber in your area who knows how to work on a Case. Third would be to move the water supply and rearrange the drain so you could use an in-wall tank. If you want to do so, I can vouch for the wall-mount Aquia being a good bowl.

Come on back if this doesn't answer all your questions.
 

robertmccrory

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"First, if the toilet is a nightmare, it's only because it hasn't been maintained or adjusted by somebody who knew what they are doing."

Hello! Thank you for your response! I say the toilet is a nightmare, but what I mean to say is that having this toilet has been a nightmare for me. I have had 7 different plumbers from 4 different plumbing companies out to work on this toilet and not a single one of them has been able to adjust it to work properly, even after ordering completely brand new insides for the toilet it is still not working properly (and 2 of the aforementioned companies came out after the insides were replaced to try adjusting it). I've spent over $1000 on new parts and plumbers coming out to try to fix it.

"NO other toilet will work without a "retro fit", period."

Rather than spend any more money on this toilet I've decided to order a drain plug and close it off and wall over it. It is in a jack and jill type setup with another toilet on the other side so I'm just going to put a 'vanity area' where this toilet used to be.

Thanks to everyone for your advice and help but I've had to give up on using this toilet. If anyone in the Oklahoma area is looking for a free spare case 3000 toilet feel free to stop on by and pick it up :)
 

Reach4

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"NO other toilet will work without a "retro fit", period."

Rather than spend any more money on this toilet I've decided to order a drain plug and close it off and wall over it. It is in a jack and jill type setup with another toilet on the other side so I'm just going to put a 'vanity area' where this toilet used to be.
You may have a different view of what "retro fit" means. I think that hj is indicating that you are not going to find a toilet that just bolts onto the existing bolts. You could put in a new floor mount-rear-exit toilet with modest re-work.

If you do get rid of the toilet, consider telling the tax man (if he misses the info from the permit) so that when he plugs your house into his formula, he comes up with less value to be taxed on.
 

robertmccrory

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You may have a different view of what "retro fit" means. I think that hj is indicating that you are not going to find a toilet that just bolts onto the existing bolts. You could put in a new floor mount-rear-exit toilet with modest re-work.

If you do get rid of the toilet, consider telling the tax man (if he misses the info from the permit) so that when he plugs your house into his formula, he comes up with less value to be taxed on.

I actually ripped out some more of the wall so I could see the whole carrier, but I don't have a photo handy. I had what I consider to be the best plumbing company out of the bunch (I live in a smaller town and there's not a lot to choose from) and had them take a look. They had 3 plumbers come out and they can't seem to find a toilet they think will work with the carrier.

That said, at this point I might be willing to try to replace it myself if I could find a toilet that would actually work with the carrier. The biggest problem I'm seeing (using the American Standard Glenwall from your reply above as an example) is that the drain hole doesn't seem to match up with the specifications. My drain hole is 4" to center from the floor, the drain in the specification appears to be 7.5" to center from the floor:

Untitled-3.png


I would also need to adjust the vertical height between the bolts as the are not 7.5" between them, and my bottom bolts are currently at level with the center of the drain and should be lower I think looking at the spec. I may be able to drill some more holes in the carrier to fix the bolt locations but I don't think there is anything I can do about the height of the drain from the floor.

EDIT: Okay, just looked at the spec again and I think what I thought was the drain height might actually be the supply? Basically, I have no idea what I'm doing. :) I've replaced plenty of floor mount toilets in the past, but I think trying to mess with this wall mount on my own is probably out of my league.
 

Terry

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The drains on a wall hung bowl, Gerber Maxwell and American Standard Glenwall, are even with the lower bolts. Normally 4-1/4" off the floor. They can also be installed higher than that.
The Glenwall bowl height is 14-1/2" at that setting to top of bowl.
The Maxwell bowl height is 16-1/8" at the setting to top of bowl.
If you adjust your carrier, or replace it, use the standard bolt pattern for either of these two bowls. They use the same rough dimensions.

The 7.5" was a suggested water supply location, but really the water supply can be most anywhere on the wall that is not covered by the toilet.
 

robertmccrory

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The drains on a wall hung bowl, Gerber Maxwell and American Standard Glenwall, are even with the lower bolts. Normally 4-1/4" off the floor. They can also be installed higher than that.
The Glenwall bowl height is 14-1/2" at that setting to top of bowl.
The Maxwell bowl height is 16-1/8" at the setting to top of bowl.
If you adjust your carrier, or replace it, use the standard bolt pattern for either of these two bowls. They use the same rough dimensions.

The 7.5" was a suggested water supply location, but really the water supply can be most anywhere on the wall that is not covered by the toilet.

Oh, that is awesome! So basically I'll just need to figure out a way to lower the two top bolts down then, I think I'll go ahead and give this a try.

One more question, the Case 3000 had a sort of fabric like material where the toilet met the drain where like the wax ring goes on a floor mounted toilet. Is there anything different about a wall mount where something similar to that is needed for replacement or would I just need to get a new wax ring to replace that with the new toilet?

Thanks again!
 
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WilmaS

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I am in the process of having our master bath remodeled. I have the Case 3000 that has problems. Most we have repaired ourselves with expensive replacement parts. I do need a new seat in "Mint Green". I don't know if to replace entire toilet with a new wall mount now or stick with this old green baby.
 

hj

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At one time, plumbing codes wanted to make ALL toilets have a system similar to the Case 1000-/3000 fill valve mount, but they couldn't change to code until at least one other company adopted it, and since no one else did, the idea died. There are NO 'generic' parts, such as Fluidmaster, which will fit a Case low profile toilet.
 
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