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Thread: Shower handle sticking out too far

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    Question Shower handle sticking out too far

    I have lurked on these boards for a while and it has been a lot of help. I just signed up because I have my first question. I am in the middle of remodeling my bathroom. I got a Moen shower/tub faucet kit from Lowes. It is pretty simple. Model 82496BN. Anyway, my plumber begrudgingly (he was not happy with me shopping at Lowes or Home Depot) installed it. The problem now is that the handle sticks about 2 inches from the wall plate (not sure what that piece is called). I have taken enough showers in my life to know that it does not look right. I contacted Moen who informed me that none of their products should look like that when installed properly. My plumber blames it on poor products being sold at Lowes, and the pictures on the box being deceptive. Anyway, does anyone know why this would happen with the handle sticking out that far? Is it something simple that was overlooked during the install, or is my plumber right and everything sold at Home Depot and Lowes is junk? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
    TROJAN WORLDWIDE SALES RP MACPLUMB 777's Avatar
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    Poor Install By Plumber, Did Not Fit To Finished Wall Correctly, No Matter
    Where Tub/shower Valve Came From

    Jerrymac Masterplumber

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member Daydream46's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Just to illustrate my husband's (alphonse55) point...

    This is what our shower currently looks like....




    this can't be right

  4. #4
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Aesthetically, maybe not, but it is within the limits of the valve. If you couldn't get the plate flat against the wall or there was unfinished metal showing, then it would be out of spec. It would have looked better if the valve was further back, but there is nothing technically wrong with it IMHO.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    Licensed Grump GrumpyPlumber's Avatar
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    Those valves, as with most, are made to have variable depth to a degree.
    Jim states it well above...as long as the flat trim plate is on the finished surface and the chrome tube covers the area between the trim plate and the handle, it's installed correctly.
    As for your plumber, he has valid reason to be apprehensive.
    The worst experiences we come across are merchandise, stock & fixtures purchased by the homeowner.
    A great example is the LAST Glacier Bay faucet I'll ever do...customer got a kitchen faucet for less than $40 and expressed dismay with my workmanship when the faucet was flimsy.
    Purchases from HD & Lowes have repeatedly proven to procure lower quality stock.
    A great example is the faucets they carry, there really is a difference.
    Plumbing suppliers sell very few faucets with plastic parts.
    MFG's offer the box stores more "homeowner" oriented fixtures...they may look similar, but there are alot of plastic parts that are chrome plated to appear to be quality, despite having the same MFG name.
    "The biggest regrets we have in life are the chances we never took."

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    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    I agree with Jim and Grumpy... Its not great but it is within the limits.

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    DIY Junior Member Florida Jake's Avatar
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    Default Moen sells junk

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream46 View Post
    Just to illustrate my husband's (alphonse55) point...

    This is what our shower currently looks like....




    this can't be right
    From your post in 2007 I find it funny that I ran into the same problem in 2012. Moen simply sucks. They know that they have this probem and they continue to sell the same junk with the same problems. In south Florida most upscale homes are made with concrete block and stucko with a 1/2 inch nailer, sheet rock then tile (wood is bug food down here). Installed the product per Moen instructions more or less just diagrams.

    So when installing the same shower valve five years later I have the same problem and it looks like hell. Pure junk. Moen answer move the valve back to allow the handle to be flush. Oh, you want me to take off the tile, sheet rock, knock a huge whole in the concrete block and change the plumbing just so your junk will be flush. You got to be kidding me. Moen plan B we will send you an extention for the plate that will give the tolarable distance of 3/4 of an inch. Give me a break. Moen shower handle sticks out and looks like crap.

  8. #8
    DIY Senior Member Chad Schloss's Avatar
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    "Moen simply sucks. They know that they have this probem"

    moen does not have a problem.. it is simply whomever installed the valve who has the "problem"

    it is OK where it is. if you wanted it closer, you could have talked to whomever installed it BEFORE it was installed & where you expected it to be.
    Last edited by Chad Schloss; 06-29-2012 at 07:53 AM.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Moen (and most other manufactuers) give a range of acceptable fitment for their valves. From their viewpoint, if it fits, it's okay. But, since there's a range, it is up to the individual to decide where THEY want it. SOrt of like deciding where to hang a picture...not everyone will like it in the same place. YOU have to try it and decide. The manufacturer is just telling you the range in which it will fit. It's always best to mock up the wall configuration and valve placement to decide if it's the look you are after. If not, and you can't change the valve placement, choose a different brand that may have a different set of limitations that meet your criteria of acceptable asthetics - don't blame the manufacturer on this (although they are not blameless maybe for not telling you).
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  10. #10

    Default Moen 82496

    My plumber just replaced an old Delta single handle shower/tub fixture and installed a Moen 82496bn. I chose this Moen because it had a spout that didn't protrude too much and a smaller shower head. The handle sticks out about 3.75 inches+ from the finished wall ( the gap between the handle cover and the wall plate is about 1 1/4 inch. It is not aesthetically pleasing at all, but I have an older house and I'm only willing to do repairs without remodeling or tearing out walls. The plumber and I didn't want to break the tile and open the wall beyond the existing 6 inch diameter opening. The wall tiles are not thick but the mudded wall behind it is about 1 inch thick. Is there any adjustment that can be made to reduce the gap? Thanks to everyone for all the information. Jim's link to the Moen specification website was very helpful as well as Terry's information on Moen's tolerance for installation.

  11. #11
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    chel_in_IL, In any future project I would get rid of as much of the Galv, as possible. At least the stuff in any wall that is opened up! Just put a 8" brass nipple between any copper and Galv. connection.

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    Remodel Contractor GabeS's Avatar
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    Chel in el,

    You definitely should have taken out that galvanized pipe. I also noticed unions that were buried in the wall. You are not supposed to bury unions in the wall. Should have been couplings.

    Anyway,

    I know that everybody is talking about tolerances. But when I have my installed I do a very simple thing. When you open the box up there is a temporary plastic attached in the shape of a circle. It says on that plastic "THIS EDGE FLUSH WITH FINISHED WALL". That's it. End of story. Doesn't matter what thickness sheetrock or tile or whatever. There is only one finished wall surface.

    The pic of the valve looks fine to me. There are no exposed unfinished parts visible. It does stick out further than other valves I've seen (kohler and delta), but still looks fine to me.
    Gabe

    Don't follow my advice, I only know a thing or two about a thing or two.

  13. #13
    Remodel Contractor GabeS's Avatar
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    mrhutton,

    I reread your post more carefully after my last post.

    If what you are saying is true, then the argument has to be with Moen and not the plumber.

    I'm always told and hear it repeated a million times: whenever you are installing something or using a product, the manufactorer's directions and instructions trump all other directions and codes. If they built it, then they know how to install or use it.

    If they say this edge flush with finished wall, and then it sticks out after you follow their directions, then that's how it was meant to be. The advertising pics need to be updated or the instructions need to be updated. One or the other.

    In this case I do not think the plumber is at fault IF he followed the manufactorer's directions.
    Gabe

    Don't follow my advice, I only know a thing or two about a thing or two.

  14. #14

    Default

    > If what you are saying is true, then the argument has to be with Moen and not the plumber.

    Correct - I hope I made that clear in my previous postings.

    > I'm always told and hear it repeated a million times: whenever you are installing something or using a product, the manufactorer's directions and instructions trump all other directions and codes. If they built it, then they know how to install or use it.

    I agree - this is sensible, and is why I did what I did. However this experience has taught me to take the manufacturer's instructions "under advisement" instead of treating as an absolute.

    To restate - I see no harm in reseating the valve deeper so that the final aesthetic matches the product brochures - as long as there's *some* clearance between the back of the Moentrol's handle and the escutcheon when the valve is off, then it's functionally correct. For reasons that aren't clear to me, Moen simply opted for bad, over-conservative valve seating instructions.

    > If they say this edge flush with finished wall, and then it sticks out after you follow their directions, then that's how it was meant to be. The advertising pics need to be updated or the instructions need to be updated. One or the other.

    I agree - as it stands, their brochures are deceiving as they don't accurately depict the finish-installed product (isn't that the whole point of the photos in product brochures afterall?). If I knew it was going to look like it does, or that I'd have to do a non-trivial correction job after the fact, I'd've gone with another brand.

    > In this case I do not think the plumber is at fault IF he followed the manufactorer's directions.

    Again, I completely agree.

    But I've learned my lesson - always have the finish/trim pieces in hand during the rough-in so that you test out the depth for yourself and don't have to rely solely on the manufacturer's instructions. (Geez - so I guess this is my fault afterall and not Moen's, right? i.e., I should've known better than to trust a world-renouned manufacturer... ugh.)

  15. #15

    Default showerhead defective

    The Moen showerhead in the 82496 kit seemed to have much more volume than 2.5 gpm spec. Turns out the internals were defective and missing part of the restrictor. So I used a Grohe showerhead that I had from 10 years ago and it now has the proper flow volume out of the showerhead which is much better than the excess volume out of the moen valve water spout. Along with the extra swivel from the Grohe showerhead makes this Moen acceptable; even with the unappealing Moen handle sticking out problem.

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