indirect water heater
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Master Plumber Mark
Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
What do they look like????
Never heard of either one of them...
that is usually not a good first step......
do you have any specs on them???
good luck
Never heard of either one of them...
that is usually not a good first step......
do you have any specs on them???
good luck
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GrumpyPlumber
Licensed Grump
I install quite a few indirects.
I suggest Superstor Ultra because they have a lifetime warranty and they are made from 316 stainless, the exchanger is accessable for maintanence (unlike Amtrol).
After reading the MFG info on the Weil Maclein Ultra I have to admit I have swayed from the "tank in a tank" type heaters because if the inner tank goes, it's all over but the cryin'.
However, this inner tank is stainless, they also put their money where their mouth is with a lifetime residential warranty.
I would stay away from the Peerless, it's an ordinary coil type...the tank in a tank will recover much more quickly.
That Weil Macclein has me drooling...though I have no doubt the price tag has you nailbiting.
Final fact to consider, Weil Macclain is a long time respected name in hydronics.
I think you might have just sold me on a new indirect.
I suggest Superstor Ultra because they have a lifetime warranty and they are made from 316 stainless, the exchanger is accessable for maintanence (unlike Amtrol).
After reading the MFG info on the Weil Maclein Ultra I have to admit I have swayed from the "tank in a tank" type heaters because if the inner tank goes, it's all over but the cryin'.
However, this inner tank is stainless, they also put their money where their mouth is with a lifetime residential warranty.
I would stay away from the Peerless, it's an ordinary coil type...the tank in a tank will recover much more quickly.
That Weil Macclein has me drooling...though I have no doubt the price tag has you nailbiting.
Final fact to consider, Weil Macclain is a long time respected name in hydronics.
I think you might have just sold me on a new indirect.
samlin7
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thanks mr. grumpy plumber
you made my day, actually the weil Mcclain ultra 40 is about 170 bucks cheaper then the peerless. the ultra 40 is about mid to upper 800 dollars (which is about the same price as your superstor ultra. My plumber was trying to sell me a Turbomax T-23 for 1400 bucks, but I figured I can get a lower priced indirect and just have him install it.
Well since you seem impressed by it I think I will go with that one, since i am only a novice at these things. As long as I did not hear anything horrible with it I was planning on going the weil mcclain (as you stated, they are a well respected name).
thanks
you made my day, actually the weil Mcclain ultra 40 is about 170 bucks cheaper then the peerless. the ultra 40 is about mid to upper 800 dollars (which is about the same price as your superstor ultra. My plumber was trying to sell me a Turbomax T-23 for 1400 bucks, but I figured I can get a lower priced indirect and just have him install it.
Well since you seem impressed by it I think I will go with that one, since i am only a novice at these things. As long as I did not hear anything horrible with it I was planning on going the weil mcclain (as you stated, they are a well respected name).
thanks
GrumpyPlumber
Licensed Grump
I think I'm the guy you've been talking with.
Kidding, but be leary of the fact that if the unit needs any service he won't likely warranty the work.
I'd also be interested in knowing who will sell it to you and how you got it that cheap (used..online?)
Kidding, but be leary of the fact that if the unit needs any service he won't likely warranty the work.
I'd also be interested in knowing who will sell it to you and how you got it that cheap (used..online?)
samlin7
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So here is a follow-up,
My plumber suggested the thermo turbomax 23 which he stated the first hour rating was about 300 gallons.
I was looking to get the the weil mcclain ultra plus 40 which i am not extactly sure how to read the 1st hour ratings.
My question is it seems as though my plumber thinks the turbomax 23 would supply enough hot water to my house, I am wondering it the ultra plus 40 would produce the same amount of hot water as the turbomax 23 or do i need to get a larger ultra plus.
Here are the 2 spec sheets. there are too many numbers for me and i don't know if i am comparing apples to apples.
Turbomax
http://www.thermo2000.com/pdf/en-US/specs/turbomax.pdf
Weil Mcclain
http://www.weil-mclain.com/downloads/literature/indirect/pluslit.pdf
My plumber suggested the thermo turbomax 23 which he stated the first hour rating was about 300 gallons.
I was looking to get the the weil mcclain ultra plus 40 which i am not extactly sure how to read the 1st hour ratings.
My question is it seems as though my plumber thinks the turbomax 23 would supply enough hot water to my house, I am wondering it the ultra plus 40 would produce the same amount of hot water as the turbomax 23 or do i need to get a larger ultra plus.
Here are the 2 spec sheets. there are too many numbers for me and i don't know if i am comparing apples to apples.
Turbomax
http://www.thermo2000.com/pdf/en-US/specs/turbomax.pdf
Weil Mcclain
http://www.weil-mclain.com/downloads/literature/indirect/pluslit.pdf
GrumpyPlumber
Licensed Grump
Funny, I've had a turbomax brochure sitting on my desk for 6 months and forgot I had it.
Here's the skinny, the turbomax's recovery chart is completely dependant on the boilers BTU rating.
I'll toss some opinion in, after comparing the two designs I'd easily venture to say the turbomax would run circles around the Weil McClain Ultra's output in GPH because it's virtually a tankless..the 4 potable copper water lines are submerged in a hydronic tank...pitfall...they're copper, no way to know how many years they'll last.
The Ultra would last you a lifetime, however, the outside surface area vs the amount of water to be heated wouldn't be able to produce as much hot water as the turbomax...your plumber has a point.
First hour ratings - Weil Mac. 140 gallons @ 140 degree's, Turbo 137 @ boiler max output of 100,000 btu, assuming your boilers has at least 100K btu, which it should be...mindfull the Turbomax's output is greater if your boiler is more than 100K btu.
Here's the skinny, the turbomax's recovery chart is completely dependant on the boilers BTU rating.
I'll toss some opinion in, after comparing the two designs I'd easily venture to say the turbomax would run circles around the Weil McClain Ultra's output in GPH because it's virtually a tankless..the 4 potable copper water lines are submerged in a hydronic tank...pitfall...they're copper, no way to know how many years they'll last.
The Ultra would last you a lifetime, however, the outside surface area vs the amount of water to be heated wouldn't be able to produce as much hot water as the turbomax...your plumber has a point.
First hour ratings - Weil Mac. 140 gallons @ 140 degree's, Turbo 137 @ boiler max output of 100,000 btu, assuming your boilers has at least 100K btu, which it should be...mindfull the Turbomax's output is greater if your boiler is more than 100K btu.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
You have to compare apples to apples...
An indirect's ability to heat water depends primarily on two things (well, maybe three, but I'll get to that):
- the desired output temperature. The lower the acceptable water temperature, the more water you can get out of the thing either in a large dump or continuously.
- the amount of heat you can put into the thing. One spec sheet lists common input heat. The Weil-McCain lists it based on which boiler model you use, so you'd have to look at the boiler spec sheet to see how they line up.
the third thing is how cold your incoming water is.
So, how big of a boiler are you going to use? Then, make sure it is hooked up with a priority zone - so that when you want DHW, it shuts off the house heating zones, otherwise, your first hour rating won't be anywhere near the spec sheet since you won't be getting the full output of the boiler.
If your house doesn't need a huge boiler, then you may want to go with a bigger tank, otherwise, you'll be paying both for the larger unit and install, but having it run at less than its most efficient level.
An indirect's ability to heat water depends primarily on two things (well, maybe three, but I'll get to that):
- the desired output temperature. The lower the acceptable water temperature, the more water you can get out of the thing either in a large dump or continuously.
- the amount of heat you can put into the thing. One spec sheet lists common input heat. The Weil-McCain lists it based on which boiler model you use, so you'd have to look at the boiler spec sheet to see how they line up.
the third thing is how cold your incoming water is.
So, how big of a boiler are you going to use? Then, make sure it is hooked up with a priority zone - so that when you want DHW, it shuts off the house heating zones, otherwise, your first hour rating won't be anywhere near the spec sheet since you won't be getting the full output of the boiler.
If your house doesn't need a huge boiler, then you may want to go with a bigger tank, otherwise, you'll be paying both for the larger unit and install, but having it run at less than its most efficient level.
samlin7
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So please help clarify,
I called weil mcclain and had a local guy call me back, he stated the water in our area can cause problems with the HWH. He suggested to purchase the HWH from a specific store called blackman because they carry the Weil Mcclain with a "duplex" tank??
He said if i was to buy from another place make sure the tank is AF Passivated if not duplex.
He kinda lost me there, I guess I will check Blackman and see what they charge for the tank. But this guy did state in the past the HWH did not do well in our neck of the woods. But Weil Mclain is aware of it and made changes.
He also told me that you can tell what the tank is made of by the serial numbers, but i was walking around when he called me so i did not get the chance to write it down.
Not too sure what the duplex tank means or AF passivated. Anyone got any ideas??
I called weil mcclain and had a local guy call me back, he stated the water in our area can cause problems with the HWH. He suggested to purchase the HWH from a specific store called blackman because they carry the Weil Mcclain with a "duplex" tank??
He said if i was to buy from another place make sure the tank is AF Passivated if not duplex.
He kinda lost me there, I guess I will check Blackman and see what they charge for the tank. But this guy did state in the past the HWH did not do well in our neck of the woods. But Weil Mclain is aware of it and made changes.
He also told me that you can tell what the tank is made of by the serial numbers, but i was walking around when he called me so i did not get the chance to write it down.
Not too sure what the duplex tank means or AF passivated. Anyone got any ideas??
GrumpyPlumber
Licensed Grump
I think the Turbomax is looking less like a candidate here...copper can't compete with stainless.
As for the terminology, each MFG has there own terminology...just ask the rep what it means.
It's probably more preventive measures for either mineral buildup or galvanic action.
As for the terminology, each MFG has there own terminology...just ask the rep what it means.
It's probably more preventive measures for either mineral buildup or galvanic action.
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