Expanding ProPex tubing (Wirsbo System)

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DonM

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Hi:

I'm reading the instructions for expanding the pex tubing to fit on the proPex fitting.


It says to slide the ring no more than 1/16 of an inch onto the end of the tubing- then to insert the expander tool. The unexpanded ring and tubing will not initially go into the tools expander completely. This is normal. But then you re expand and the ring and tubing will then completely go to the shoulder of the tool. After re expanding a few times you can place on the fitting.

My question is after expanding does the ring slide back onto the tubing so that more than 1/16 of an inch of ring covers the tubing??? This is not clear to me and I need to know the proper method before I screw up!


thanks
Don
 

Master Plumber Mark

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wirsbo system expander

It takes a little practice to get your groove with
this stuff... and some he-man fore arm strength
to work with the larger sizes of wirsbo....

you put the ring on the pipe ...

you try to ge it so the outer ring overlaps the inner ring
by about a 32nd of an inch.... basically just a hair overlaping

the expander has to be literally rode up the inside of
the pipe when you expand that fitting....

you force it in a little and expand it, then you push it up further and expand it more ...untill you have bottommed out against the tool....


you absolutely MUSt keep your hands out of anything oiley like soldering flux that might transfer to the pex pipe...

if the outer ring starts slideing up the pipe when you are trying to expand it that means you have gotten into something slick and oilley or wet and then that means you have to hold the ring in place to keep it from slideing back up the pipe.......

usually its easier to cut it off and start over....




the best advice tha can be given is to keep your hands
dry and oil free,,


also you got to think of this experience as something like a free fore-arm workout.....because you will build up muscle if you do a whole house in wirsbo.....
 

DonM

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So after the expansion process is completed -the outer ring overlaps the inner tube still only by a 32nd of an inch? And it's only the now expanded outer ring (attached to the tubing by 1/32 of an inch) that actually abuts the fitting?

Seems like you would want the ring to completely overlap the tubing for the best possible seal- but if I understand you that is not the case.

Thanks
Don
 

Cass

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Here is a pic of how it should be.

wirsbo1.jpg



wirsbo2.jpg



wirsbo3.jpg
 
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DonM

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sorrry- I can't really tell from the pix.

In a nutshell- after the expansion process is complete, and I place the pex on the fitting, Is the ring still only have approximately 1/32 of an inch overlap on the tube?? OR, is the ring completely over the entire tube???
 

Cass

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If you look at the first pic you will see that the ring is sticking out past the pipe 1/32". That is what they are talking about.
 
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DonM

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If you look at the first pic you will see that the ring is sticking out past the pipe 1/32". That is what they are talking about.

Cass:

The first Pix looks to me as though the blue ring "covers" the tubing almost completly- maybe 1/32 nd of an inch isn't covered.

Mark told me that:

Mark said:
you try to ge it so the outer ring overlaps the inner ring
by about a 32nd of an inch.... basically just a hair overlaping

The Pix shows the blue ring almost completely overlapped- Mark says only overlap by 1/32nd??

Which is correct??

Thanks
Don
 

Master Plumber Mark

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a hair is a hair...1/32nd is just ballparking it....

I stated that you have to practice with a
few fittings to get your own "mojo" or groove
going....

when I first did a few I was not sure of myself either
but after trial and error you can see that 1/32nds

Like I stated its just a hair over-lapping the inner
pipe.... If you do it that way you always win.....


its mostly all in your mind to find that right spot....

Through trial and error young student....

---you will find your "inner plumber" and you will
automatically know the correct positioining of the ring.....

"pex on---pex off" .... "pex on ---pex off" ......weed -hoppper....


you expand the two fittings together,

you can adjust it by hand
or with a pair of channel locks tap that outer fitting into
the "right perfect spot"....

then you have about 3 seconds to slip it on the pex fitting
and hold it in place till it grips
or it will not go on all the way and you are screwed...


I have re-expanded the wirsbo a few times before
its no problem



Cass those are nice pics of the pipe

I like the pretty blue rings too

where did you buy that color???
wirsbo1.jpg
you can see that the outer ring is just barely overlapping the innner pipe
 
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Master Plumber Mark

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Rugged and clean hands

I never have clean hands....

but I learned real quickly to keep a clean dry towell
around when fooling with this stuff...
and not my soldering rag

my first mistake was to throw pex fittings in my soldering box and get the flux all over them

After fighting a few fittings I figured this out for myself...

keep the flux or putty or whatever away from your
wirsbo tools and fittings and you will win...
 

Jadnashua

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Using pex with the aluminum layer could act like a Faraday cage and inhibit rf from entering or leaving, depending on the frequency involved...wouldn't matter which brand. An oxygen barrier can be had with or without the AL in it, although the AL helps it to hold a shape, if that is useful for your installation.
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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Yep, you're probably right on the money on that jad.

He lives long distance from practically everyone and he uses the phone for free long distance....

outside in the cold. He has a weak signal (two bars) where he's at already so there's no chance of using the phone when inside the home.


He also spoke of a pressure drop on his system but I wasn't much help. He's afraid one of the pipes is leaking in the floor and has no clue where to start looking for it.:(
 

Jadnashua

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Tell him to look into either cellphone amp or a rerad system. The amps plug into the external antenna jack (many phones have them), while the rerad systems use an antenna on the roof, an amp, and an antenna inside.
 

DonM

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wirsbo1.jpg
you can see that the outer ring is just barely overlapping the innner pipe


I think after reading your response- that my problem here is my definition of "overlap"

When I look at the pix, I can see the white tubing underneath the blue ring. I think the blue ring is almost completely covering the tubing (I would call that overlapping) except for about 1/32 of an inch (closest to the end where the fitting will go) which is hanging over or extending beyond the tubing underneath.

Does this sound right? Originally I thought the blue ring only covered the tubing by 1/32 of an inch- instead of the above pix which shows it covering it almost completely.

Thanks for your patience.

Don
 

Master Plumber Mark

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sorry if I confused you

a picture is worth a thousand words....

and you can see that they close to are even
or flush to each other in the picture

for some reason it seems to just make a better joint

when you just make that slight adjustment to the outer ring.


do a few test runs... you will notice that by looking at the finished
product the difference that the pipe seems to clapm on to the tee...

by just barely overlapping the outer ring it seems to
squeeze down better on both of those cast rings on the fitting.
and seems to make for a better joint..

once you get the feel for it you can really fly with this stuff...
it becomes very easy.

I have the battery operated tool and plan on re-doing a whole house
this tuesday.....

so perhaps I will post some pics

and everyone can critisize my work


I hope that this makes sense...
 
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Jimbo

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Nobody has mentioned the factory certification class. What does Wirsbo say? I have not used Wirsbo, or attended a class. I guess we are past the day when you weren't supposed to buy this stuff unless you had the training!
 

Master Plumber Mark

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Jimbo ---thats the truth

Jimbo ....any clown can claim to do pex today.....

I recently went a home where the home-owner mixed Zurn
fittings with wirsbo pipe....

cut into the wirsbo and installed two tees to finish a
bathroom in the basment

used the crimp rings intended for Zurn Pex
on the wirsbo pex.....

I did not have my digital camera or I would have
takne a picture of it....

I told him that it would not hold and eventually their
would be a disaster but he knew better....I was
just a dis-honest contractor trying to make work for myself.......


and he would rather listen
to the 10 dollar an hour PRO at HOME DEPOT
who told him that it was fine...

So I gave him that "free estimate" to finish
installing the bathtub and faucet and left


I got to get a camera in my nextel phone
so I can post some of the butchery I have seen
 
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Seaneys

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Is it required to use a particular brand of PEX tubing with the Wirsbo Pex? Can I use different brands of tubing?

Thanks,
Steve
 

spryde

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Is it required to use a particular brand of PEX tubing with the Wirsbo Pex? Can I use different brands of tubing?

Thanks,
Steve

Each system is pretty much matched within itself. There is enough variation between wirsbo, sioux chief, zurn, etc that mixing and matching parts can guarantee your house to look like the Bellagio fountains at a random point in the future.

SP
 

Seaneys

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I moved to Wirsbo for my addition about a week ago. I've ripped the big box store stuff. I see why Wirsbo is recommended, it makes a very solid connection.

Is it possible to over expand the pex? With 1/2 inch PEX, it am expanding it about 4 times with a 3 to 4 second count. I then slide it on very quickly.

Thanks
Steve
 
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