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Thread: Best option for spa wiring

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member BrianJohn's Avatar
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    The conductors in romex are THHN THWN, The jacket is not aproved for use outside.

  2. #17
    Electrician Chris75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianJohn View Post
    The conductors in romex are THHN THWN, The jacket is not aproved for use outside.

    Yeh, too bad its not printed on the conductor to show the inspector...

  3. #18

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    Or better yet, DON'T make splices. Do it the right way and run the NM to the disconnect (if it is mounted on the house) and go from there with THWN in conduit
    Read the post. Did I stutter?

    That's exactly what I would do but the last few feet of the run, out of the attic, down to the disco, sleeved in NM, would be non compliant. THEN I suggested changing to thwn to remain compliant. If I somehow suggested running the NMout of the building straight to the spa, my bad. I assumed from the original post that he knew that a disco was required and was inquiring about a method to change wire types.


    the maximum allowable 6' of sealtite at the tub.

    Got a code reference for that one? You can run as much sealtite as you want because OBVIOUSLY you would put a GC in it....unless you were and idiot.


    We all know that the wire in NM is thhn but since it's not marked, it's a technical violation. Sue me.

    Also, MC is not marked on the wire but don't you ever run it in emt, exposed down to a switch for example? What ever.


    the rest of us here are not fans of NON-compliant work.

    Who elected you to be the head Dbag?
    Last edited by Alectrician; 12-01-2007 at 08:44 PM.

  4. #19
    Electrician Chris75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alectrician View Post
    Got a code reference for that one? You can run as much sealtite as you want because OBVIOUSLY you would put a GC in it....unless you were and idiot.


    We all know that the wire in NM is thhn but since it's not marked, it's a technical violation. Sue me.

    Also, MC is not marked on the wire but don't you ever run it in emt, exposed down to a switch for example? What ever.





    Who elected you to be the head Dbag?
    Your making such an ass out of yourself its not funny...

  5. #20
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Look...if this was a pro hangout, I wouldn't see anything wrong airing dirty laundry and shortcuts you take that you believe are fine. This is primarily a DIY'er help site. Therefore, it behooves us to ONLY give code approved responses. If you want to give some advice that isn't up to code, give it in private. If you do post it, make sure you indicate the right way, or that this is not the approved way to perform that task.

    Name calling is pretty childish, too.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  6. #21

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    Your making such an ass out of yourself its not funny...

    I thought you were not going to argue with me?


    Maybe you can tell me about the 6' limitation on sealtite or if you ever put MC into emt,

    Petey will keep going until he finally says "I am done with you"....and then he'll be back.

  7. #22

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    If you want to give some advice that isn't up to code, give it in private. If you do post it, make sure you indicate the right way, or that this is not the approved way to perform that task.

    Did you even READ my post? Maybe you shoud before you join the dog pile.


    Name calling is appropriate between me and Petey. We go way back and we can take care of ourselves.

    Name calling between me and Chris is still in the developmental stage.

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member BrianJohn's Avatar
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    Sleeving romex and MC is done all the time, as stated the conductors are the same.

    Some conductors in MC and romex are marked


    From my post at another site...where 90% of the posters state they perform this type of installation.

    This is done all the time and I see no problems with this, as for the marking..Ever look at #6 awg-750 kcmil after it is pulled into a piece of equipment, often the markings are GONE, due to soap, rubbing the conduit, newer lousy marking methods.

    Does these conductors need to be replaced.

    Oh and what inspector is looking in the conduit to see the markings.
    and I'm told inspectors pass this type of installation all the time.
    This is a non issue,IMO.

    Not telling anyone to break code if that is their interpation just stating the fact.
    Last edited by BrianJohn; 12-02-2007 at 12:48 AM.

  9. #24
    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alectrician View Post
    Got a code reference for that one? You can run as much sealtite as you want because OBVIOUSLY you would put a GC in it....unless you were and idiot.
    Don't I always?

    IV. Spas and Hot Tubs

    680.42 Outdoor Installations


    A spa or hot tub installed outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and 680.42(B), that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.

    (A) Flexible Connections Listed packaged spa or hot tub equipment assemblies or self-contained spas or hot tubs utilizing a factory-installed or assembled control panel or panelboard shall be permitted to use flexible connections as covered in 680.42(A)(1) and (A)(2).

    (1) Flexible Conduit Liquidtight flexible metal conduit or liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted in lengths of not more than 1.8 m (6 ft).








    Quote Originally Posted by Alectrician View Post
    Who elected you to be the head Dbag?
    I'm self appointed. Got a problem with that Skippy?

  10. #25

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    You know, it's very interesting to hear all of the interpretations of the code, or at least the personal liberties taken with the code.

    I'm not looking to violate anything, and I certainly do not want an unsafe condition where I'm worried every time my wife or I hop in the tub. But the commentary here makes me laugh a little, especially when I hear certified electricians (I'm hoping you are, at least) argue about the meaning of what seems to be a very straightforward code. Gotta say, it doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in me to hire a pro, especially if you have more than one way to interpret the code.

    Here's my situation - I need a 50A feeder. My main panel is about 60' away from where the cable will exit the house. The spa will sit in my backyard, which is 9' lower than my front yard. So I have an option to exit the house through the deck ledger board 9' above the spa and run cable along the deck rim joist and down the post, or I can exit the house low and deal with modifying the siding.

    In either case, I have about a 18' run from the house to the disconnect.

    I have a disconnect and will use it. I am trying to avoid having to use NM in the house, make a connection into a JB and switch over to conduit into the disconnect, and then use liquidtight flex to the spa.

    What are my options?

    Thanks again,
    Rick

  11. #26

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    If your panel is outside, sleeve the 6/3 out of the panel, run it under the house,sleeve it under the deck into the disco (line of sight to spa). Run PVC underground to the spa, adapt to sealtite to terminate in the spa control J box. Pull #6 thhn from disco to spa....I have been doing elec work most of my adult life and contracting for most of my career and that's how I do it. It is a 100% safe installation.

    Again, the technical issue would be placing the romex in the conduit outside. To me, it's a non issue.

    According to some you have to jb where you enter and exit the structure. Maybe some would consider under the house "outside" I don't know. Maybe some would consider under the deck part of the structure...I don't know.


    And Pete....go bother Brian for a while. I'm going out of town for the day....maybe two.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alectrician View Post
    If your panel is outside, sleeve the 6/3 out of the panel, run it under the house,sleeve it under the deck into the disco (line of sight to spa). Run PVC underground to the spa, adapt to sealtite to terminate in the spa control J box. Pull #6 thhn from disco to spa....I have been doing elec work most of my adult life and contracting for most of my career and that's how I do it. It is a 100% safe installation.
    Thanks for the feedback. My panel is indoors, in my basement. Joists are exposed and running romex can be easily done through the basement over to where I have to exit the house.

    I'll see if I can get a couple of pics together or sketch something up. Might make things easier.

    Thanks again,
    Rick

  13. #28
    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alectrician View Post
    I have been doing elec work most of my adult life and contracting for most of my career and that's how I do it. It is a 100% safe installation.
    That's funny. You know how us real electricians determine what is safe? Does it meet code, that's how. The code is a minimum standard. If you can't even meet that minimum, or are too ignorant to care about it, I feel sorry for you.
    I couldn't care less how long you have been doing electrical work. Because for that whole time MUCH of what you have been doing has been wrong.
    With the exception of the safety of your customers, I really don't give a crap how you do your work or run your "business".

    What bothers the rest of us here is that you CONSTANTLY give advice to non-trades folks that IS wrong or not code legal.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alectrician View Post
    It is a 100% safe installation.

    Again, the technical issue would be placing the romex in the conduit outside. To me, it's a non issue.
    In essence, are you advocating (even promoting) a known and intentional Code violation? How can you say that this is a 100% safe installation? Simply due to sheer luck that no one has been hurt by it? Has your installation method been tested by UL, ETL, or any other testing lab in regards to it's 'safety'?

    Have you gone back to check on the condition of each and every one of these installations to even find out the current condition of them? If not, how do you know they are still 'safe'? Maybe your first installation like this has burned the house down, or the ground wire has failed, killing the whole family, and you just don't know about it because you did it so long ago.
    Just my 2 worth.

  15. #30
    DIY Senior Member BrianJohn's Avatar
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    certified electricians (I'm hoping you are, at least)
    Nope not one of us is certified, licensed maybe. I am licensed but can not speak for the others, well Speedy and 480 I believe are....(I sort of know them in a round about web way). They are sharper on NEC issues than I am as I am no code expert. I pick up the book and review as necessary.
    Last edited by BrianJohn; 12-02-2007 at 11:35 AM.

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