Reply With QuoteI take it you live in an area where it is hard and expensive to get permits for new construction. They put a lot of time and money into that. The end result looks great. It had to cost a lot.
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Yeah, they did an amazing job. Wish I had some pics of the final result.
What you can't tell, is the floor all this is sitting on got completely reframed, as well. And one of the walls.
Man, I felt bad for that crew.
Master Plumber Mark:
there is nothing better than the
manly smell of WD 40 in the air
while banging away on brass with a chisel and hammer...
it smells like......victory......
do not hit your thumb...
__________________
Just so everyone's clear: I'm the POODLE in the picture ("french", get it?) The hot woman is my wife.
I take it you live in an area where it is hard and expensive to get permits for new construction. They put a lot of time and money into that. The end result looks great. It had to cost a lot.
You know what I would like see now? Is the plumbing&electric&HVAC part of the
project.
Last edited by cwhyu2; 12-03-2007 at 08:20 PM.
It's impossible to get a permit for new construction there. National Park. The houses are grandfathered in. You can fix them, but you can't replace them.Originally Posted by construct30
Depends on how you measure these things - it only added about 10% to the job, which was a complete gut to begin with, involving some very high-end finishes & etc. 700$ kitchen faucet? ...like that.They put a lot of time and money into that. The end result looks great. It had to cost a lot.
Yup. New everything. Sorry, no pics; but they did a nice job.You know what I would like see now? Is the plumbing&electric&HVAC part of the
project.
Last edited by frenchie; 12-03-2007 at 08:49 PM.
Master Plumber Mark:
there is nothing better than the
manly smell of WD 40 in the air
while banging away on brass with a chisel and hammer...
it smells like......victory......
do not hit your thumb...
__________________
Just so everyone's clear: I'm the POODLE in the picture ("french", get it?) The hot woman is my wife.
Construct30
The codes (both UPC & IPC) are concerned with pipe passing through framing members. Subflooring is not a framing memeber. The orignial picture doesn't show the pipe passing through the joists. What do you do with drains and vents inside walls? Run a steel plate from floor to ceiling? I don't think attaching the pipe to the subfloor is ideal, but I don't think it violates any codes.
IPC 305.8 Protection against physical damage.
In concealed locations where piping, other than cast-iron or galvanized steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates. Protective shield plates shall be a minimum of 0.062-inch-thick (1.6 mm) steel, shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates
And that's why the plumbing inspector passed all those installs in the same fashion on the 2nd roughs. Good find Phil.
As far as the couplings in that copper pipe; when I did new construction the guy I worked for would force us to keep using up pieces of copper coming off the ends of the pipe. Don't dare cut new sections cut to size off 10 footers or he'd hit the roof.He felt with copper couplings being .11 cents at the time that it was cheaper than pulling off a section of new 1/2" copper, $3.41
Those days are loooooooong gone and I believe for good.
Read what the end of this sentence means.
Phil H2 I wondered how long it would take some one to read the codes and point that out. I deal with two inspectors and I asked them and both said they would fail that. If you want to do it then by all means do it. I can't believe the number of plumbers that are defending such practices. The intent of the code is to protect the pipes in a home whether they are under ground through joist or under the subfloor. I guess I will have to contact ICC and have them add that part, I guess using common sense is not enough.
The Intent of the code is to protect the public.
Sorry, I will be more specific, this section of the code we have been talking about for the past three pages.
I guess this comes down to personal preference. I asked my inspectors and we are on the same page, but maybe some inspectors as well as some plumbers don't see it that way.
I grew up around electricians and reading electrical code books, maybe some of that is clouding my judgement on this. I think I will still refrain from doing it though.
I never said that I liked the pipe attached to the subfloor. I would never do it because I have seen too many subfloors that have had another layer addded with long nails. I wished I was wearing a hardhat everytime I have climbed into an attic or crawl space that looked like a porcupine on a steel diet. Personally, I'd rather see pipes attached to the subfloor than see nails poking through everywhere threatening my scalp. I quoted the code because I don't think the DIYers should be mislead into thinking that pipes (or electrical cable) must be 1-1/2" clear of the face of the subfloor, drywall, or siding. They would think their house has a defect when it does not.
The codes are only a minimum standard. But, it would be ridiculously difficult to wire or plumb a building and keep everything 1-1/2" inside the wall. A person would be hard pressed to keep NM cable within those bounds in a 2 x 4 wall and you could forget about 1/2" copper pipe. That is why they make nail plates for the penetrations through plates and studs( http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...NSP-PSPNZ.html ). The code is concerned about where the pipe or cable passes through a framing member. Look at all of the electrical boxes designed for cable; the cable entrance is at the back of the box which places it very close to the drywall or siding on the opposite side of the wall. It would be impossible to use those boxes in a 2x4 wall if the cables needed to be 1" away.
Last edited by Phil H2; 12-06-2007 at 08:02 PM.
There's code, but there's also: "Contractor warrants that all Work performed pursuant to the Contract shall be performed in a good and workmanlike manner".
Basic common-sense rule of thumb: anytime a pipe (or wire) is secured so that it can't just shift out of the way of a fastener, and it's close to the finish surface, it needs protection.
Master Plumber Mark:
there is nothing better than the
manly smell of WD 40 in the air
while banging away on brass with a chisel and hammer...
it smells like......victory......
do not hit your thumb...
__________________
Just so everyone's clear: I'm the POODLE in the picture ("french", get it?) The hot woman is my wife.
OK so you don't like section 305 Protection Of Pipes And Plumbing Systems What about IPC 102.9. The inspector becomes god, little g.
The general idea is that pipes and wires are to be run in areas that protect them as much as possible. You can run one wire down a 3.5" stud and it has to be straight as possible and in the middle. Inspectors tend to realize what is and is not possible when building. They still expect any tradesman to do the best job they can, when in their judgment you don't they slap one of those big orange stickers on your permit that says try again. What ever color they use where you live. I guess in this instance that's what this is, a judgment call. Ask your inspector.
I'm pretty much with all the above, I don't care whether code OK's it or not, I won't be clipping any pipes to subfloors anytime soon.
Murphy's law almost guarantee's the carpenter would hit my lines, been there, done that, all set for the future.
"The biggest regrets we have in life are the chances we never took."
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