Moving storeage tank - will this work?....

Howdy everybody!

I really want (the wife insists..) to move my current water storage tank for my deep to back behind the garage into a special shed I'm building for it. The "new" location would be about 40 feet farther from the house. The current well casing has pvc pipe leading from the saddle valve to the house.... this occasionally breaks and has to be dug up. I would ~like~ to use the 1" coiled pipe as it "gives" more without breaking and use it to connect the saddle to the tank T, then run the same coiled poly-pipe to the house and do away with the white PVC pipe that was installed 20 years ago.

For any kind of future "service needs" at the tank I plan to connect the poly pipe to a 90 degree elbow coming out of the ground and running to a bushing to allow me to run 1" copper straight up from there to a union (to make it really easy to service / remove / whatever) and then to the T at the storage tank. I plan to have a special shelf for the tank to sit on about 4' from the ground so that when the tank needs servicing somebody (me?...) doesn't have to stand on their head to look at the thing....(current tank is about 8" above the ground...). Then, would like to continue the coiled poly-pipe BACK out of the storage tank through the same kind of setup to the house.

Some questions, if I may....

1) Why was this cheap whit PVC used in the first place - just to save money?

2) Is the coiled poly-pipe not used because it is more expensive?

3) Seems from what I've seen at some builder supply houses all the fittings / busings / adaptors are available to let me hook up the poly-pipe - is poly-pipe less reliable than pvc?...

4) Can I run the line from the well casing to the tank and the line from the tank to the house in the same ditch (for a distance of about 30 feet)?

I have installed a poly-pipe well (230') many years ago - I liked it and it was easy to use (despite ripping my arm open on a steel clamp while lowering the pump down...) and through the years I've used PVC for everything from A-Z (even for removing truck axle bearings!!) so I can "go" either way. The pump casing will soon be surrounded by a concrete drive, so I need something that will last.

Would the above coiled pipe / copper pipe and unions work nicely? The reason I want to use the 2 unions on either line is to ~easily~ remove the tank if I need to - simply undo the two unions and the fittings to the T and the tank can be slid out for servicing / replacement... Naturally I would probably order everything through Terry for the installation....

Sorry for the long post
-Mark~
I like old trucks

I think most of the pump guys are using poly pipe with insert fittings.
I notice that the plumbing supply places carry the brass insert fittings, and the big box only carry them in galvanized.
I like old trucks

Just a few questions come to mind:

loveoldtrux said:

current water storage tank

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Storage tank, or pressure tank?

loveoldtrux said:

for my deep

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What's a deep?

loveoldtrux said:

The current well casing has pvc pipe leading from the saddle valve to the house....

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Saddle valve? Why would there be a saddle valve at the well head? Do you have a picture?

loveoldtrux said:

this occasionally breaks and has to be dug up.

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This shouldn't break, is it below the freeze level, if not it should have been.

loveoldtrux said:

I would ~like~ to use the 1" coiled pipe as it "gives" more without breaking and use it to connect the saddle to the tank T, then run the same coiled poly-pipe to the house and do away with the white PVC pipe that was installed 20 years ago.

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You didn't give us a distance but you can install 2" PVC for the same price as 1" PE, and probably save a few bucks.

loveoldtrux said:

For any kind of future "service needs" at the tank I plan to connect the poly pipe to a 90 degree elbow coming out of the ground and running to a bushing to allow me to run 1" copper straight up from there to a union (to make it really easy to service / remove / whatever) and then to the T at the storage tank.

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You make it sound like the well head is below the surface of the ground, is it? You didn't say if you have a submersible pump, or a jet pump.

loveoldtrux said:

I plan to have a special shelf for the tank to sit on about 4' from the ground so that when the tank needs servicing somebody (me?...) doesn't have to stand on their head to look at the thing....(current tank is about 8" above the ground...).

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this is unusual, buy you could do it.

loveoldtrux said:

1) Why was this cheap whit PVC used in the first place - just to save money?

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Cheap, easy to work with, reliable, doesn't corrode like steel...

loveoldtrux said:

2) Is the coiled poly-pipe not used because it is more expensive?

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Probably.

loveoldtrux said:

3) Seems from what I've seen at some builder supply houses all the fittings / busings / adaptors are available to let me hook up the poly-pipe - is poly-pipe less reliable than pvc?...

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No probably just as reliable, just costs more, the barbed connectors are somewhat less reliable.

loveoldtrux said:

4) Can I run the line from the well casing to the tank and the line from the tank to the house in the same ditch (for a distance of about 30 feet)?

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Sure.

loveoldtrux said:

The pump casing will soon be surrounded by a concrete drive, so I need something that will last.

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You need to leave access to the well head, and if the pipe breaks, it will break under the concrete "Murphy's Law".

Most of us that maintain our own pumps/well, although we are not pump guys use Poly down the well unless it's beyond 250', then we would use steel and have a pump guy do it. We use galvanized steel to come out of the well seal into an elbow, then another short piece to a union, then a street el and down underground to a PVC elbow then out to where ever we want to go. The steel is used so we can wrap it with heat tape and then insulate it so it doesn't freeze. You can get the brass barbed hose fittings at the same place the plumbers buy their parts, typically in a commercial building complex. Or since it's just one or two, I use Ace hardware, I think they're nation wide, or you can get them on-line.

Rancher

Thanks Terry - I guess I'll get the brass inserts; I'd bet they'd last a lot longer than I do!!....

Thanks for all the information, Rancher.

Jeez, I read my post several times before I posted the thing and didn't notice one mistake - thanks for the questions back!!... I meant to say "deep well"; it is about 250 - 275 feet deep with a 5 hp (?...) pump hanging off the end of it. The submersible pump pumps the water up to about 2 feet below the top of the casing - at this point is goes out the side of the steel casing through what I've always called a saddle fitting and from here it gets pumped to the storage tank with a pressurized bladder in it; then off to the house from the pressurized tank.

Rancher - it doesn't sound like your pump setup has the saddle fitting; sounds like your pipe from the water comes up and out the top of the casing and then back into ground to the house. That's where my saddle fitting that straddles the casing comes into play - you never see the pipe going to the pressure tank as it's always under ground - takes a special tool to insert the top of the supply pipe into the saddle fitting with the casing cap off.

Rancher - you say it's unusual for the pressure tank to be mounted 3-4' off the ground on a shelf - wouldn't that make it a whole lot easier to service when the time comes; for not only me but others, too? I'm no longer the 35 year old stud I used to be - at 55 I'm happy if I can bend my knees to take a ____.

Rancher - the well casing sticks out of the ground (soon to be corrected...) about 1 foot. Every now and then somebody will back into it and when they do... it'll snap the pvc pipe going to the saddle fitting 2' below the ground. That's why when I do all this work in the next 30 days I'll be paying a pump man to come out and cut the thing off at ground level... then he'll put some kind of a "monitor cover" on it to keep water out of it.

Although it sounds like it might be a shade more expensive, I'd "like" to use the coiled poly-pipe for everything - from everybody's feedback it sounds like it is okay to use - just use brass barbed inserts and not the steel ones Lowes sells. And make sure I get the special clamps for the poly-pipe, too as it'll be buried.

loveoldtrux said:

Rancher - it doesn't sound like your pump setup has the saddle fitting; sounds like your pipe from the water comes up and out the top of the casing and then back into ground to the house. That's where my saddle fitting that straddles the casing comes into play - you never see the pipe going to the pressure tank as it's always under ground - takes a special tool to insert the top of the supply pipe into the saddle fitting with the casing cap off.

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OK, got cha, that's a pitless adapter, not a saddle fitting, although I can see why you would call it that. And no we don't use them.

loveoldtrux said:

Rancher - you say it's unusual for the pressure tank to be mounted 3-4' off the ground on a shelf - wouldn't that make it a whole lot easier to service when the time comes; for not only me but others, too?

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Well that's true, but I don't do a whole lot of adjusting on mine, maybe every 5 years change out the pressure switch, or gauge... and my knees will catch up to yours in January.

OK understand on the well head, and of course if you cut it off there will be no more PVC breaking, but if you want to dig it all up and replace it with PE, it will last you the rest of your time on this earth. Hope you aren't digging that 2 foot trench by hand, oh my aching back...

You could also use PEX for the underground portion, but I'm not sure that it's readily available in 1".

Rancher

A 5 HP pump is a MONSTER pump for a 1" line, even for a 250 ft well. Do you really know what you have in that hole? Do you have any idea how many GPM it pumps?

How many gallons is the tank?

loveoldtrux may not be back, however has anyone used this flex pvc?

http://store.123ponds.com/pe150flex100.html



Looks interesting and they have it in 1.25", 1.5", 2" & 3" sizes.

Rancher

I'm b-a-a-a-c-k....

NH - yup, it says it on the side of the submersible pump they put in 20 years ago - 5 HP. I've only had to have some sort of "one-way" valve replaced in the line because of silt build up. The tank's label is really corroded; can't read the size, but it looks to be about 3 feet tall and 2 feet wide; it's blue. But I'll be installing a new tank when the tank shed is completed on the back of the garage hopefully in the next few weeks. I'll probably be using the 3" isocyanurate foam insulation to keep the Georgia winters at bay and a small strip of heater tape around the T fitting at the tank.

Thanks for the feedback Rancher - nope, I'll be renting a ditch witch or something like that to knock out the ditches with.

TRUE!! Pitless adapter is that thingy down there!! Works fine unless the steel casing is backed into .... but once it's lowered to ground level and the poly-pipe is connected through the BRONZE fittings I'll be good to go...

~Mark~

Yes,
but did you listen to this song about trucks?
I like old trucks

Terry - here's MY oldtruck ( http://us.mistynewbeak.biz/html/harrison.html ).

Gotta be a real man to handle this beast on the road!! Currently being restored. I jerked out the worn out 292 6 banger and stuffed (more like dropped in..) a 460 that I built to the gills back when gasoline was less than $1.20 a gallon..... .... in fact gasoline was SO plentiful I took out the 19 gallon tank and installed a 40 gallon tank. I can no longer afford to fill it up!! I guess that's why I'm ALSO restoring a 1981 Chevette with a 1.4 liter engine....

I can't get the song to play, unfortunately; maybe it's my 28.8 connection?...

Kendel

Good song, singer. Who is Kendel?

Rancher

Rancher said:

loveoldtrux may not be back, however has anyone used this flex pvc?

http://store.123ponds.com/pe150flex100.html

Looks interesting and they have it in 1.25", 1.5", 2" & 3" sizes.

Rancher

Click to expand...

I've used stuff like that for pump suction lines. They seem to make it UV-resistant, even if it isn't black in color. I've seen very large arrays of well points feeding a common suction line, using that flex PVC for interconnects. Assuming it has the spiral-wound reinforcing, it's supposed to take full vacuum.

1" pvc flex at spa depot, 22$ and oddly, 2" for 30$. Nice stuff for plumbing around pressure tanks and well heads. 2" is good around Poly storage tanks to allow for some settling. Thats for 10' rolls.

OK if this is the stuff with the spiral wound reinforcing then I used it many years ago on a Spa, I thought this was something new.

Rancher