Pump Sugjestion needed...

Chez · Nov 23, 2007

Okay, well I will give a quick rundown of my project and I need some advise on a pump. I wish I had found this forum two weeks ago when I started this project. I have a stream/pond on my land that I want to use for irrigation. So I rented a trench digger and dug a 18" deep trench for the pipe to run from the water source to my house. Down in South Carolina this is below what frost line we have.

I already goofed and ran 3/4" pipe instead of something bigger like 1 1/4" pipe. So I may re-lay larger pipe down the road someday. The water source is about 15ft below my house, however, I had to lay 230 feet of pipe. I had an old good working shallow well pump and tank that I tried to use, however I couldn't get it to prime. I've concluded that this is because of the friction of the long run of pipe. I have a foot valve at the water source. I'm in need of a pump that will work for this application. I planned on using a 40 gallon tank with it. Will just a external deep well pump work for this application? I was thinking of something along the line of a Goulds JRD 10? Any thoughts on this endevour would be appreciated. Thanks

-RJ

Bob NH · Nov 23, 2007

A JRD10 is a 1 HP convertible jet pump, often used as a deep well jet.

I would not use that kind of pump. I would use a submersible pump. A submersible is more efficient and you can use a smaller HP pump to get the same flow.

The Goulds 10GS05 1/2 HP submersible with your 3/4" line will give you about 9 GPM at 40 psi at the house, and about 13 GPM when you put in a proper size line. A jet pump will not come anywhere near that delivery with your small line.

You will need to run an electric line to the stream to power the pump.

You can use the 40 gallon tank located at the house as long as you have the pressure switch at the house. You can tap off the 3/4" line between the pump and the house if that is convenient and that will give you more flow available.

You want to get a pump that is wired for 240 Volts.

When you do the irrigation system you should match it reasonably well to the pump so when you are running it. For that pump you should be able to run 12/2 with ground, either UF, or THWN in a conduit. The Goulds site says you can go up to 400 ft with #14 for a 230 Volt 1/2 HP http://www.goulds.com/pdf/BSUBCAB.pdf but I would go with #12 in case you ever want to use a 1 HP pump.

If you use any kind of direct burial cable the code (NEC Table 300.5) says it must be buried 24"; in PVC conduit you can go to 18". If you were to run 12/2 UF across the ground and roll it up in the winter it would not be to code. UF can't be strung on poles unless it is supported by a messenger cable. Open wiring on insulators is permitted if you qualify as an agricultural establishment.

If you are in a rural area you could also run it on poles, in which case you could get some aluminum Triplex of at least #10. I don't know how small it is available. There is also a "direct burial" cable that can be used but it is usually larger.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Speedbump · Nov 24, 2007

Your kinda out of luck with any kind of jet pump. A deep well pump needs r pipe and a shallow well jet pump is going to hate the friction loss.

bob...

Chez · Nov 24, 2007

speedbump said:
Your kinda out of luck with any kind of jet pump. A deep well pump needs r pipe and a shallow well jet pump is going to hate the friction loss.

bob...

Bob, what is "r" pipe. Sorry I'm not savvy with all the lingo. I can re-run the pipe it wouldn't be the end of the word just a few good hours of work.

Thanks

-RJ

Chez · Nov 24, 2007

Bob NH said:
A JRD10 is a 1 HP convertible jet pump, often used as a deep well jet.

I would not use that kind of pump. I would use a submersible pump. A submersible is more efficient and you can use a smaller HP pump to get the same flow.

The Goulds 10GS05 1/2 HP submersible with your 3/4" line will give you about 9 GPM at 40 psi at the house, and about 13 GPM when you put in a proper size line. A jet pump will not come anywhere near that delivery with your small line.

You will need to run an electric line to the stream to power the pump.

You can use the 40 gallon tank located at the house as long as you have the pressure switch at the house. You can tap off the 3/4" line between the pump and the house if that is convenient and that will give you more flow available.

You want to get a pump that is wired for 240 Volts.

When you do the irrigation system you should match it reasonably well to the pump so when you are running it. For that pump you should be able to run 12/2 with ground, either UF, or THWN in a conduit. The Goulds site says you can go up to 400 ft with #14 for a 230 Volt 1/2 HP http://www.goulds.com/pdf/BSUBCAB.pdf but I would go with #12 in case you ever want to use a 1 HP pump.

If you use any kind of direct burial cable the code (NEC Table 300.5) says it must be buried 24"; in PVC conduit you can go to 18". If you were to run 12/2 UF across the ground and roll it up in the winter it would not be to code. UF can't be strung on poles unless it is supported by a messenger cable. Open wiring on insulators is permitted if you qualify as an agricultural establishment.

If you are in a rural area you could also run it on poles, in which case you could get some aluminum Triplex of at least #10. I don't know how small it is available. There is also a "direct burial" cable that can be used but it is usually larger.

Bob, thanks for the prompt reply. Greeting from a fellow New Englander here (VT). I was really trying to avoid running a pump down by the stream. It does flood sometimes and I would hate to loose it down stream. That is why I was trying to keep everything "in house". To allow the use of a jet pump what size line would I use? What type of pipe? I would of used larger, however my local Home Depot only had 3/4" and I thought that would be plenty. Obviously not! Are there sources for larger line that might allow me to use a Deep well jet pump online?

I guess I'm not totally against running a pump at the water source, I would just rather not. If that means re-running the line than so be it. That's why I'm here

. As always, appreciate it.

-RJ

Wet_Boots · Nov 24, 2007

Start over. Write off your first suction line. For 230 feet of suction line, I could see going with 2 inch, if friction losses are to be minimized. How much vertical lift from pond to pump?

Bob NH · Nov 24, 2007

A deep well jet pump is a terrible pump. The only useful function is where people have old wells with casings too small to use a submersible. They have terrible efficiency.

Start with defining how many gallons per minute you need, and what pressure. Then pick a pump to do the job.

You can anchor a submersible so it won't get washed away. It is the most efficient pump for the application and will survive the weather. Since the pipe is not below the frost line you will be bringing in the pump in the fall. However, it would be easy enough to install it so it could be left our all winter if you installed a pipe below the frost line like a shallow well.

Mike Swearingen · Nov 24, 2007

Here's more helpful info:
www.IrrigationTutorials.com by Jess Stryker.
Good luck!
Mike

Wet_Boots · Nov 25, 2007

Bob NH said:
A deep well jet pump is a terrible pump. The only useful function is where people have old wells with casings too small to use a submersible. They have terrible efficiency.

Start with defining how many gallons per minute you need, and what pressure. Then pick a pump to do the job.

You can anchor a submersible so it won't get washed away. It is the most efficient pump for the application and will survive the weather. Since the pipe is not below the frost line you will be bringing in the pump in the fall. However, it would be easy enough to install it so it could be left our all winter if you installed a pipe below the frost line like a shallow well.

Why would you recommend placing a submersible in a body of water, if you don't even know that the OP lives in a state where it is actually legal to do this sort of install? A tad reckless, methinks.

Speedbump · Nov 25, 2007

Bob, what is "r" pipe. Sorry I'm not savvy with all the lingo. I can re-run the pipe it wouldn't be the end of the word just a few good hours of work.

Sorry, I got ahead of myself typing. Two pipes is what I meant to say. I agree with BobNH, deep well jets are almost useless.

Go with the sub. You will love it.

bob...

Bob NH · Nov 25, 2007

Wet_Boots said:
Why would you recommend placing a submersible in a body of water, if you don't even know that the OP lives in a state where it is actually legal to do this sort of install? A tad reckless, methinks.

I don't know what the law is in South Carolina as it is a long way from New Hampshire, but it is a very functional way to get water from a surface water source.

If I were doing it I might put a vertical tile or pipe near the stream and connect the stream to it with an underground pipe. For example, one could use a 4" schedule 40 pipe for both the vertical and the horizontal to a deep spot in the screen. Then a vertical pipe would extend upward and would contain a screen to admit the water.

The pump in the vertical pipe would be protected from being carried away by floods and would not in fact be in the stream.

I would rely on the owner to comply with the law but it looks like you are OK if you don't withdraw more than 100,000 gallons per day, which is about 70 GPM 24/7.

South Carolina Code of Laws
(Unannotated)
Current through the end of the 2006 Regular Session

SECTION 49-4-20. Definitions. As used in this chapter:
(11) "Surface water withdrawer" means a public water system withdrawing surface water in excess of three million gallons during any one month and any other person withdrawing surface water in excess of three million gallons during any one month from a single intake or multiple intakes under common ownership within a one-mile radius from any one existing or proposed intake.

SECTION 49-4-40. Registration.
(A) An existing surface water withdrawer in the State shall register its surface water use with the department on forms provided by the department no later than January 1, 2001.
(B) An existing surface water withdrawer already registered with the department is exempt from subsection (A). (C) A surface water withdrawer shall submit a registration form to the department within thirty days after completing construction of its surface water intake.

Wet_Boots · Nov 25, 2007

I missed the SC in the original post (like the posters can't fill out the location when they register - gripe grumble), so mea culpa, if you have specific knowledge of their practices.

I do have a "how might this go horribly wrong" tendency when considering some of these projects. Like when Hurricane Floyd turned gentle streams into raging torrents that would have ripped out a submersible no problem. If the water wouldn't fetch it, the floating trees would.

For the states that do not permit installing a submersible in the body of water, I would look to have a shallow-well jet pump located somewhere above a high-water mark. If a flood rips out the suction line, it's only material, and no shock hazard will occur from wire ends under water.

Pump Sugjestion needed...

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