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Thread: electromagnetic water softener (descaler)

  1. #16
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Herk that he was an advertiser with a twist; came with tons of links and general "rebuttal" statements....unlike most computer generated scripts that normally don't offer that. Some don't even care, they just want site views to push them higher up on the search engines or that web crawlers pick up linked-to sites.


    On another front (to Terry) I've noticed that Vbulletin software is getting hammered hard with spamming on quite a few sites.

    I've proposed to one site since it's so bad that they need to build a front page or ghost page so that it takes 2 clicks, not one to get to the forum boards.

    This will alter the steps that a script bot has to take and therefore stop the process. Visual confirmation though will stop this problem immediately, unless of course you have an actual person pushing product.

    It's unusual to see Vbulletin with this problem all of a sudden...hopefully they are working on a patch to cure the problem quickly.
    Last edited by Dunbar Plumbing; 11-11-2007 at 09:42 AM.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  2. #17
    Engineer Furd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
    Furd posted a link to a "personal friend and water treatment consultant with over twenty years in the business of water treatment" who agrees it works.
    What my friend stated is that one particular system does work under some very specific circumstances in an industrial environment.

    I was actually involved with this experiment in its early stages but I retired before the conclusions were in. I and my friend would agree that using any kind of magnetic treatment to alleviate the hard water conditions in a residence is not likely to be cost effective nor of much use in combating the problems that will occur.

  3. #18
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking Its a piece of junk dont buy into it....

    these magnetic water softening devices
    come and go every decade or two.....

    once everyone forgets how crummey they were 15 years ago they try to re-pacakge them and sell them to the next
    wave of suckers that come along....

    Perhoaps you are looking to buy into a Franchise on them??? Or perhaps you are looking to buy one....
    Either way you are gonna get taken for a ride.



    I have torn out about a dozen of them over the years
    almost everyone said that they never worked from the get go.


    they do not work because ---I had heard somewhere that
    it has to do with the volume of water or FLOW RATE passing the magnets....simply cannot soften it quick enough.

    does that answer the question....


    ask Gary Sussler what he thinks of them

  4. #19
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    You tellem Furd!!!
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member lifespeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by master plumber mark View Post
    they do not work because ---I had heard somewhere that
    it has to do with the volume of water or FLOW RATE passing the magnets....simply cannot soften it quick enough.
    does that answer the question....
    I would have to agree that just slapping a permanent magnet on your water pipe, and relying on the velocity of the water to generate an electric field gradient is not likely to work.

    I think one of the more promising approaches is the "Template Assisted Crystallization". It doesn't use the electromagnetic approach, although the results are similar. Crystalization of the lime in solution rather than on the pipes.

    I must say, what a bunch of old dogs that can't learn new tricks. Although the abundance of scammer products clearly pollutes the pool.

    Lifespeed

  6. #21
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    eeeeek!! Another Link!!!
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  7. #22
    Plumbing Company Owner smellslike$tome's Avatar
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    I have no experience with these type "softeners" but I do have some experience with the more traditional units that add salt. Not as an installer but as a plumbing service provider that had to explain to the HO that because the nitwit who installed it made a direct connection from the discharge line of the unit to her 40' long 2" kitchen drain line, that the discharge brine solution introduced into her sanitary drainage system from the self cleaning function of the unit had hardened to almost rock status and was closing off more or less the entire downstream length of her drain line. By the way, the direct connection was made by drilling a hole in the vertical section of her ks drain coming from upstairs and gluing some type of 1/2" plug which appeared to be abs (the pipe it was glued into was pvc) to which the discharge line was hose clamped to.

    I don't know if the other types work or not but I know that the type that add salt have plenty of problems too.

    As far as the electromagnetic type only being smoke and mirrors I think everyone should consider this, "15 years ago" if you owned a cell phone it was most certainly of an analog type and you probably needed a suitcase to carry it around in but the technology progressed to what we have today. Is it unreasonable to think that this technology even if it has been flawed in the past can't progress as well?

    I do, for the record, have an interest in this. I represent no company but my own but as a plumbing service provider I would love to offer something that works and does'nt require the addition of chemicals. If it does'nt work then I don't want it because it only makes me look bad but if it does or maybe one day soon will, what a great product.

  8. #23
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
    I must say, what a bunch of old dogs that can't learn new tricks. Although the abundance of scammer products clearly pollutes the pool.

    Lifespeed
    If this is such a great technology, why don't you give us some links to the PRODUCTS that anyone has for sale, with the specifications for the warranted performance?

  9. #24
    Plumbing Company Owner smellslike$tome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob NH View Post
    If this is such a great technology, why don't you give us some links to the PRODUCTS that anyone has for sale, with the specifications for the warranted performance?
    Did I miss something? Did'nt he do that already?

  10. #25
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslike$tome View Post
    Did I miss something? Did'nt he do that already?
    I checked the links and found words without a single specification of what the product does and is warranted to do. What does the product do to the water that is measurable, and how does that relate to improvement of a condition that is causing a problem? What are the properties that I can measure to determine if it is working? What are the operating conditions over which it is warranted to perform?

    The text material describing the process is not even literate in the languge of water treatment. If the idiot doesn't know the difference between "cautions" and "cations" then he knows nothing about water treatment and is selling "snake oil".

    "The polarized cautions, such as calcium and magnesium, associate (micro) electrically in a water solution with other complementary particles (anions) in the form of ionic conglomerates and continue their way with the water flow." http://www.santaclaritawaterconditioning.com/hmws.html

  11. #26
    Sprinkler Guy Wet_Boots's Avatar
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    just another bunch of crapola - if you spend anything at all on removing minerals from your water supply, use traditional water-softeners and the like

    a variation on this theme could always be found in the pages of Popular Mechanics, for this or that miracle scheme to increase your gas mileage

  12. #27
    Geologist sjsmithjr's Avatar
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    The Corps of Engineers took a look at this technology a few years after the DOE paper. Here's a snip from the conclusions section of their paper:

    "These findings do not support the claims of the manufacturers regarding the ability of their respective devices to prevent mineral scale formation..."

    Sam Smith
    Knoxville, TN

  13. #28
    Engineer Furd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUGGED View Post
    You tellem Furd!!!
    Umm, who is em and what exactly am I supposed to tell?

    The link I previously supplied was concerning a system know as a Dolphin. This is a proprietary system that uses a pulsed electromagnet. It was installed on an "open" cooling tower serving the cooling needs of four centrifugal air compressors in an industrial facility.

    As I recall, the installed cost of this system was more than $15,000 and the operating costs, even with electricity at less than five cents per kilowatt hour, were not inconsequential. It was found that under closely controlled (with a minimum of additional chemical treatment) and using relatively soft (but not zero-hardness "softened") make-up water the Dolphin system could minimize corrosion and scaling.

    This does NOT translate as a substitute for residential water-softening systems either on a cost-effective basis OR as a better control.

  14. #29

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    It would probably be a good idea at this point to inject a simple fact. Any chemists are welcome to rebut me, because I always like to learn. Simply, magnets work on iron, boron, neodymium. They do not work on calcium, sodium, or other flavors of rock. There is nothing in drinking water that can be affected by a magnet.

    From this page:

    "Some proponents also suggest the use of magnets to reduce hard water in homes. According to product manufacturers, large magnets can reduce the level of hard water scale by eliminating ferromagnetic hard-water minerals. However, the minerals that generally cause hard water are not ferromagnetic. A two-year Consumer Reports study also suggests that treating incoming water with magnets does not change the amount of scale buildup in a household water heater."

  15. #30
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    "em" is the viewing public and you answered your own question regarding what to tell "em"....


    which is the fact that the system you spoke of was $15 grand (out of touch with the majority) and shouldn't be used as a substitute.


    I get customers all the time that are too lazy to maintain a water softener. They'll drag a huge bag of kitty litter to their basement but mention salt and won't do it.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

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