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Thread: Ben's new Master

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member bself's Avatar
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    Default Ben's new Master

    I am just starting to plan for plumbing a new addition master bathroom.

    First some background in the for of a few long stories made short:

    1. About a year ago we had a design/build firm put in a new addition with a master suite (including new basement space). Due to setback restrictions the bathroom space was not luxurious (by todayís standards) and is roughed in as 12'7" x 6'1". Due to budget compromises we got pretty much everything we wanted except the bathroom space became an unfinished closet. So now that I have caught my breath, its time to try again.

    2. It not a big job and due to the need to save a few $$, I have attempted to contract a plumber to do the rough in only. Perhaps it was the season, but out of 5 plumbers that promised, none showed up.

    3. I am pretty handy. My father was in the Army Core of Engineers and among his various certifications passed several plumbing grades. Many a summer around my 12th year I spent as apprentice/gopher on his various "outside" projects. I've continued the tradition on my own projects and know just enough to be dangerous.

    So since it looks like I might need to do this all myself. I am fully capable of doing all the mechanical task of putting together PVC and copper and any carpentry involved. What I know enough to know I don't know is engineering the DWV plan and the structural engineering required to muck with the joists.

    Here are some illustrations before I begin asking specific questions:

    <boring default layout>

    Here is a brain-dead (mostly) to scale design diagram of a functional bathroom space. I would like to do something more interesting and/or luxurious, but for now lets use this as a reference point.

    <underside>

    Here is the new addition's basement area directly under the bathroom space. The joists are 2"x10" 16" on center. The heating vent is 1 bay over from the door, and is supplied from the crawl space of the existing structure.

    <stack 1, 2>

    Here are some pictures of the existing waste stack. It is cast iron running horizontally under the foundation not more than a couple feet away from access of the previous picture (not counting 2 thick concrete walls, joists, and stuff).

    <joists>

    Here is the first problem in search of a solution. I would like to avoid going through the concrete (want to finish the basement and then there are those 2 intimidating, thick, well-cured walls). Iím pretty sure that leaves putting a 3.5" O.D of schedule 40 through a 2"x8" joist.

    (yes this is the part of the program where Bob Vila steps out and says: "never do this! but, if you have no other choice, this is how you would do it..")

    So .. any suggestions?
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  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I would move the pocket door farther from the tub,
    If you plan on tile, or a glass door with frame, you will want some solid wood near the edge of the tub.

    If this is for the master, I would be thinking of two lavs, and keep the toilet on the same wall. Opposing fixtures in a room that is about six feet wide can be a little tight.

    Going through concrete walls is not hard.
    In a crawl like that, it's better to hang the pipes below the floor joists rather than drilling them.
    Getting someone in to core the walls is easy.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member bself's Avatar
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    Terry: all good advice (even if some of it I didn't want to hear)

    1. On the pocket door. I agree and was thinking the same thing when I re-took measurements, but its kind of a done deal unless I want to rip it out. If I were to do that, I think I would just jettison the pocket door (they are more trouble than worth). For now, Iíll resist that option a bit more than the others.

    Kirdy might give me more options over the pocket door. Other than that, itís likely a compromise of which is the least invasive feature: the pocket door, or the egress/ventilation window.

    2. This layout is not optimal. Once I have a good DWV plan and know what is possible, I would like to spend a good amount of thought in doing a cool, highly functional layout.

    3. Re: going through the concrete. The more I think about it the more sense it makes. Who would I look up in the phone book. And out of curiosity, what tool do they use?

    Thanks,

    --ben

  4. #4
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I used a pocket door at the head of my tub/shower, but built it out with a normal 2x4 stud wall (so that wall was double thick). This allowed me room for the plumbing and a strong wall for the tile. Finding a wall cavity clear of outlets, wiring, ducts, or plumbing is often hard, so you are limited on where you can put a pocket door. Note, there are kits that put the door entirely on the outside, if that would work (sort of like a barn door arrangement) that wouldn't take up any interior wall space.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #5
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    One of the first homes I built had a pocket door.
    A month after the new homeowner moved in, I got the call to look at the breaking tile. It did last a week though before the problem became visible.

    For coring the holes, they use a diamond tiped core drill.
    "core drilling"
    with a little bit of water to keep the bit from getting too hot.

    That bathroom is so long, you might be able to put in a seperate room for the toilet at the far end.

    Or you could put in a vanity on the far end going wall to wall.

  6. #6
    DIY Junior Member bself's Avatar
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    OK..

    now lets start getting into something more interesting.

    Here is a very rough drain plan for connecting to the existing stack.

    3" Schedule 40 going through a >= 3.5 'cored' hole into the crawl space. New support for the cast iron will be provided near the snap points with some cinder blocks, a little digging, and a bit of mortar. A pair of poly/metal couplings marry the Schedule 40 to the cast iron + a standard waste Y with a cleanout .. use 45s whenever trying to make adjustments for pitch.

    Forgive the illustration I haven't installed the right drawing tools for doing a good job of this so the pitch and scale are way out of whack. It should serve well enough as an illustration thought.

    any refinements before moving on to the venting?

    --ben
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