Global Warming, now Water Shortage

[master plumber mark]

Sorry folks.....I am not calling anyone a bigot here.... just the way people seem to
want to laugh it all off seems to be the only analogy I can think of....

Go find the last Natioinal Geographic magazine from a month or two ago...

Its called the "big Meltdown" and its pretty interesting.....
just becasue it is not happenning in your back yard and you
cant see it ....dont mean it is not takeing place....


the nobel prize is usually given out to someone that has
made some significant contributioin to humanity in
some way.......wether physics, envoronment, math, ect ect......

I am sure that Al Gore strong armed them somehow to get that proze....

Al Bore.... as you call him did make a very good
documentary about the probems that our childrren
and their children childrens are going to have to face.....



if you feel that he won the prize because he was the
VP for my buddy -- "BJ Clinton" -- thats really beside the point..

I know that old AL isnt blowing anything here..
or vice versa......

you can joke all you want about this issue but
I seriousley doubt that many here have ever seen the movie..
or will ever sit through it. Its available at blockbuster just down the street.

and I think it is very infantile to disclaim it just because a politician
had something to do with it

its sort of like sitting through a lecture
on how you are probably going to die in the
next unknown number of years..
if something else dont kill ya. first......


it is very sobering stuff


now on the bright side...........

maybe you will get hit by a car today...
and not have to be around for the really grim stuff........

[Cookie]

Well, I will speak for myself, I want to be around for all the grim stuff and happy stuff and stuff inbetween.

But, here is something to read dated in 06. It makes for interesting reading. BTY that movie, I suffered through it, and I even own the copy and it holds up the other movies in the rack quite well.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597

[FloridaOrange]

Another scientist who is/has/was employed by the oil and coal industries as a consultant. His trip to testify before the Senate was paid for by a fuels corporation.
He's also trained atmospheric physicist who as been at odds with a climate prediction scientist.

He is hardly unbiased in my opinion and his fancy sheepskins do not make him the expert of experts.

[Cookie]

"Why don't we stop wasting time and resources trying to reverse nature, and instead use our intelligence to adapt our living spaces to the changing conditions."

Hmm, I quoted this from a very young person in my life. Give him the finest cup of Kool Aid in the house...

[toolaholic]

We can discuss ,Abortion , or plumbing next

[FloridaOrange]

We can discuss ,Abortion , or plumbing next

I vote we talk about racism in America next.

[Cookie]

Many subjects, lol. Seems like EVERYONE loves to debate issues. Fact of life.

[BrooklynJon]

You may be right about that global climate change skeptic being funded by industry. But then again, those scientists peddling the party line are compromised as well. Check this out: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/mat...nasa-scientist

The fact is, the government scientists are far from unbiased (and are certainly not under the thrall of the Bush administration). What's worse, they control the data, because no one else has the capability to plant 1000 weather sensors around the country. And it turns out that the sensors are highly unstandardized. And the data are modified by algorithms that the NOAA won't release.

And when it was demonstrated that the data was erroneous, the result was a highly unpublicized correction by NASA (which, incidentally, indicates that the hottest decade in the 20th Century was the 1930s, which was probably the decade with the least industrial output, mind you): http://michellemalkin.com/2007/08/09...the-millenium/

Ultimately, what boggles my mind is how so many people are willing to uncritically accept this on the basis of the opinion of a bunch of experts in white coats. These same believers are skeptical about virtually everything else, such as whether planes really crashed into buildings on 9/11, and whether western medicine works. They won't eat Nutrasweet. They won't use cellular phones. They believe the studies that demonstrate their safety are shams.

But a guy in a white coat says that their breath is heating up the planet? Then it must be true!

Baffling!

[Terry]

Here in the Northwest, we don't have to go far to see the climate change.
Glaciers are disappearing on a yearly basis. We see this on our weekend hikes.
New species are entering the area. Both on land and by water.
Ski areas are in talks about trading acreage for higher elevations.

[FloridaOrange]

You may be right about that global climate change skeptic being funded by industry. But then again, those scientists peddling the party line are compromised as well. Check this out: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/mat...nasa-scientist

The fact is, the government scientists are far from unbiased (and are certainly not under the thrall of the Bush administration). What's worse, they control the data, because no one else has the capability to plant 1000 weather sensors around the country. And it turns out that the sensors are highly unstandardized. And the data are modified by algorithms that the NOAA won't release.

I'll agree with you on that 100%.
I'm sorry to say I'm a Republican under the current administration, I did not vote for the Dufus-In-Charge. What they've done to subvert science with their meddling seems criminal to me. But then again, 50% of what they do seems criminal to me.

[FloridaOrange]

Here in the Northwest, we don't have to go far to see the climate change.
Glaciers are disappearing on a yearly basis. We see this on our weekend hikes.
New species are entering the area. Both on land and by water.
Ski areas are in talks about trading acreage for higher elevations.

Our Everglades are hurting too. But this has as much to do with overpopulation and diverting the natural flow of water to satisfy the masses as it does with Warming screwing with our weather cycles. Not to mention, the idiots in charge of managing the water levels in Lake O need to be replaced.

[BrooklynJon]

I'll agree with you on that 100%.
I'm sorry to say I'm a Republican under the current administration, I did not vote for the Dufus-In-Charge.

Well, as a Democrat, I'll grant that the choice we were given in 2004 was less than scintillating, from both parties.

And I'll also agree that - given that an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - it is reasonable to make reasonable changes in consideration of global warming. This is particularly true if these reasonable changes are chosen so as not to make other things worse. Solar energy? Why not! Windmills? Absolutely! Nuclear energy? Uh, probably (so long as we can figure out what to do with the waste). My Prius? I love it! Efficient boilers? Terrific! Microcogeneration? A win-win!

On the other hand, trading in carbon offsets is moronic. Biofuels threaten our topsoil and the tropical rainforest. Kyoto would gut our economy. Increased used of diesel in urban areas would worsen the problem we have with asthma in inner cities. And the current fuel cell mania begs the question of how we'll produce, transport, and store all this highly explosive hydrogen.

So I believe the widespread belief in global warming - right or wrong - can be a force for good even if it's wrong. But, misapplied, it could net some very bad consequences, which would be particularly tragic if it turned out that the global warming hypothesis were incorrect.

[GrumpyPlumber]

Insightful thread.
Between insinuations of "tobacco industry" type political special interest influencing government research/data and ice core samples from antarctica, I'd have to err on the side of caution.
We could go over and over the facts that could potentially influence the Earths climate by stating fascinating facts about the 100,000 year elipse in it's orbit, the 26,000 year change in its axis, but then -
Did we cover ALL relevant facts?
The Earths magnetic poles change position periodically, which likely has an affect on climate as well (as the magnetosphere filters cosmic radiation), not to mention the Earths field has weakened by 15% in the last 300 years or so.
Then there's the Suns 11 year cycle...there are hundreeds, maybe thousands of unmentioned variables that could also have an affect on the Earths climate.
In other words, I DON'T presume to know enough to make assumptions.
Terry says he see's it when he hikes, large chunks of polar ice are breaking away, there are Alaskan islands that have to be evacuated because the permafrost has melted and they are eroding so fast they may be gone in a decade.
The Amazon is drying, as is Asia - due to changes in weather patterns from Global warming and ocean surface temperatures...this IS happening.
This is real, in question is whether WE have any influence.
Do I know enough to make an assumption either way?
NO.
Does it hurt us as we shift our economy away from foreign fuel to more domestic energy sources?
Lets forget all discussion of global warming and focus on the way domestic refineries have stuck it to us for years, as well as OPEC.
Every time I dump another $80 down the tank, I wonder how much of my money has been filtered to another extremist terror organisations arms purchases. Had I just funded another American citizens beheading?
I say YES to hydrogen fuel cell technology, YES to solar power, nuclear power, heck even hamptster power on a treadwheel if they generate something.
Lately my focus has turned to the insurge of good ole American ingenuity, most of which is quackery ( http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm ), but never fails to give me hope in removing financial dependancy and leverage on societies that have often yet to adopt indoor plumbing as a standard of living.

[FloridaOrange]

That's it. I'm getting rid of the stang


For a Smartcar!














Well, probably not . My next car will be more environmentally friendly, though the mustang is staying in the garage for whatever dinojuice we have left.

[BrooklynJon]

You may make a better environmental change by trading in your gas lawnmower for an electric or manual one, or even better, by getting rid of your grass and planting a groundcover that doesn't need to be watered or mowed.

http://www.edie.net/news/news_story....3585&channel=0