Global Warming, now Water Shortage

**Mikey** · 11-12-2007, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Cookie

Mikey, B. Jon,

I carry drywall on TOP of my car. Works well, acts like a sail, too, and saves on gas.

Yeah, didn't I see you at Home Depot yesterday?

**Cookie** · 11-12-2007, 07:04 AM

Yeah, but imagine what I saved on gas.

**GrumpyPlumber** · 11-12-2007, 08:58 AM

Mikey, B-Jon,
Thats it, I'm getting a freakin' Prius.
One third the gas and I could still drive like a nut.

**Cookie** · 11-12-2007, 03:25 PM

What do they go for?

**Mikey** · 11-12-2007, 04:35 PM

I think the MSRP starts at just under $20K, but the usually load 'em up with options, and some dealers tack on a "dealer premium" or "availability surcharge", so the bottom line could be anywhere up to slightly over $30K, I imagine. When I bought mine the dealer ripoff surcharge was $2K, but because they screwed up when they wrote the contract, I wasn't obligated to pay it. I got the 2nd-from-the-top options package, plus leather seats (which in 2005 weren't available from Toyota), and the out-the-door price was about $27K. I traded in my pickup, which further confused the real price, I suppose.

**BrooklynJon** · 11-12-2007, 08:44 PM

IIRC, I paid around 23-24K in December '04 for my 2005 Prius. It had a couple of options which added around $1000 to the price, and I didn't have to pay a markup (I did have to wait 11 months, tho'). Then, of course, there were tax incentives which probably came to around 3000-4000 total, which was sweet. So I ended up paying right around 20k or slightly less.

You should give one a test drive sometime. It's really surprisingly roomy inside (even though it looks like a stub outside), handles nicely at the 85 mph I routinely drive (just kidding, officers!), and accelerates like all hell up to around 45 mph (electric motors are torque machines). The first 10-15 minutes its on, the engine runs continuously to warm up, and the mileage suffers (25-30 mpg). Once it's warm, it zips along at 40-50 mpg no matter how you drive it.

Global warming or no global warming, it's a great car, so long as you don't routinely carry drywall around.

**Mikey** · 11-13-2007, 05:16 AM

Jon, I heard something on one of the Prius forums that sounds booogus, but with these techie-gimmick-rich cars, who knows? We all know that most of the wear on an engine occurs during initial startup, when the oil is thick and the engine is cold so clearances are all screwed up. Someone claimed that the Prius has a thermos-bottle-like container in the engine compartment, and when you shut the thing down the hot oil is pumped into the thermos. When you restart, the engine won't run until the hot oil has been pumped back into it. Admittedly, there is a brief, whiny, small-pump-like noise you hear when you shut it off, but this seems a bit far out... I keep meaning to buy the service manual, but times are tough right now.

I do know that when "the engine runs continuously to warm up", what it's warming up is the catalytic converter. I suspect that as battery technology gets better, they might use 'tricity to keep the converter hot if the engine isn't needed.

**Bob NH** · 11-13-2007, 05:49 AM

Hybrids are particularly good where you do a lot of stop-and-go driving. I think every taxicab and mail-carrier vehicle should be a hybrid.

They don't provide as much benefit on the highway. I read a report of a test comparing a hybrid with a diesel Jetta for a round trip from Detroit to Washington, DC. The Jetta had better fuel economy than the hybrid.

I like the idea of the electric cars like the GM Volt (not yet available). It has a range of about 40 miles on battery alone which covers many local stop-and-go trips that use a lot of fuel. However, they might not be attractive in areas where you need a heater to keep the windshield defrosted and to keep yourself warm.

I continue to believe that global warming will not be all that bad if we adapt to it, as we inevitably will.

**Cookie** · 11-13-2007, 06:50 PM

On the History channel tonite it is about Global warming. I am not watching it going to watch something funny, instead.

**patrick88** · 11-13-2007, 07:16 PM

Hybrids are particularly good where you do a lot of stop-and-go driving. I think every taxicab and mail-carrier vehicle should be a hybrid.

Thats is what they are good for.

They don't provide as much benefit on the highway. I read a report of a test comparing a hybrid with a diesel Jetta for a round trip from Detroit to Washington, DC. The Jetta had better fuel economy than the hybrid.

They use gas for speeds over something like 35 I think. I know Im wrong about the speed but they only use elec. for in city driving and highway is all gas. They need to make something better sooner.

**jimbo** · 11-13-2007, 07:17 PM

As usual, there are two sides to every story:

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3400

http://www.rense.com/general76/holhoax.htm

http://www.globalwarming.org/

http://globalwarminghoax.wordpress.c...lobal-warming/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-Tb7vTamY

**Cookie** · 11-13-2007, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by patrick88

Thats is what they are good for.

They use gas for speeds over something like 35 I think. I know Im wrong about the speed but they only use elec. for in city driving and highway is all gas. They need to make something better sooner.

I'll buy one of these.

**BrooklynJon** · 11-13-2007, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mikey

Someone claimed that the Prius has a thermos-bottle-like container in the engine compartment, and when you shut the thing down the hot oil is pumped into the thermos. When you restart, the engine won't run until the hot oil has been pumped back into it.

So THAT'S what the thermos is for. I've been using it for my coffee!

As far as diesels are concerned, some do get better mileage on the highway than my Prius (although my 48 mpg on that trip to Hilton Head wasn't too shabby). But the problem is that diesel engines give off a lot more pollutants than my Prius. It's only by considering carbon dioxide the only pollutant worth caring about that diesels begin to shine (environmentally speaking). Of course, from an urban public health perspective, carbon dioxide is just about the most innocuous thing that can come out of a tailpipe.

**Engineer Ben** · 06-02-2009, 08:24 AM

I'm a mechanical engineer and was talking with a Civil guy over the weekend. The real deal is the question of:

1. Where is the water?
2. What quality is the water?

It may be the case that the net amount of H20 is basically constant. The problem is that taking water from, say, an aquifer is different than taking it from a lake or an ocean. If the pumping from an aquifer exceeds the rate of replenisment you will have a problem eventually. If water is far away from where it needs to be for people and it is expensive to transport and treat then you have a "shortage" even if there is a constant amount of water globally.

Global warming discussion aside, I think it is sort of obvious that one can only grow so much kentucky blue grass in the desert before you have a problem of some kind. I'm all for the small, practical obvious improvements in efficiency even though I'm against being paranoid or wasting large amounts of money.