First Post, need some help/advice, Big help.

tony1lew said:

Hi all,
...wait for it....$1600
She can't afford this kind of money, she is in her 80's and on oxygen and just gets a pention so she asked if there was a way she could get the price down at all, he says "if you can get someone to dig the whole we'll do it for $600"
Ok your plumbers and i'm not but is this for real??? He's charging her $1,000 for digging a 6ft hole??? Ok so I can dig the hole, I don't want to but i'm not about to let her sign her pension away to this guy.


Tony

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First of all, if you own a house, you own its responsibilities, whether your dying or being fed injections to stay alive.

Second, playing in raw fecal matter is a death sentence to those who have compromised immune systems unbeknownst to them.

Third, anyone can dig a hole. Digging a hole messing with that is not as simplistic you make it out to be. Who's to say that pipe isn't in deteriorated shape all the way from one direction to another?

You going to put your happy hat on and fix all that for her too? Start digging compadre and see how many awards you get for that fine accomplishment.

Cracks me up when I hear people discount the true seriousness of dealing with raw feces and "black water" like you could drink it like summer tea.


The best advice would be for that woman to get out of her house, sell it and move into an old peoples home before people like me call the health department, removing occupancy rights for exposing health hazards to the community due to financial hardships. Anyone needs an oxygen bottle right now it's me.

patrick88 said:

LOL nice. That should be done.

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That's right.


Everybody caring about dying granny and poor little timmy with a boo-boo on his knee rides through the yard, splatters up and gets in the sore.

Poor little timmy now hooked to a million tubes in the hospital not knowing why he's not well.

Can't sue granny cause all she's got is an oxygen bottle. Sheesh


I would say protecting the health of our youth takes more precedence over those hanging on to what they know they can't take with them when they leave!! House with serious plumbing problems???

I guess we need to send a HAZMAT team to Granny's house for clean up and caution tape the area so no one else rides their bike way up on grannys lawn next to the house.

I called all the hospitals and can't find Timmy...does any one know where I can send a sympathy card.

BTW don't send your kids to school in the Cincinnati school system as 5 kids have been diagnosed with MRSA, and there wasn't even a sewage spill.

Hi Tony,

Aside from the "nay-sayers", I wish to give you any help that I can.

I'm a lifelong plumber/drain cleaner.

First off, I must apologize for my profession. There are scumbags out there that will (steal) money from anyone without completing the job. This can include a big name company that hires anyone off the street with no knowledge or experience.

If the job isn't completed to your (or your neighbors) satisfaction, do not pay them. Call the BBB instead, or the police if necessary.

Back to basics...

A sewer line in any city/town that charges for water/sewage is seldom longer than 100', usually 70' to 90' from the stool stub (the toilet mount on the bathroom floor) to the city sewer connection. All waste ends up flowing through this line. Some older homes still have a "grease trap" buried outside the kitchen area that can cause problems and should be "bypassed" as city waste management can now work with it.

Most rural lines run to a septic system which consists of a holding/decay tank and eventual leech field. This takes a lot of space and is unlikely in your situation. There are city homes (as in my area) that were once rural and had or need to have the septic system bypassed to connect to city waste.

Either way, I've never seen a 500' sewer line. In my entire career, the longest I've dealt with was 350' and I was damned lucky that I had the Gorlitz top of the line machine with a feeder and the knowledge to use it correctly.

This guy either was wrapped up in a septic tank (unlikely, as it's nearly impossible to remove the cable without digging it up), or he was lieing (most likely). Also, as mentioned earlier, few, if any, sewer/drain cleaners carry this amount of cable with them. Only a "jetter" is likely to have so many feet and that on a trailer.

It sounds to me as if the sewer line has broken or collapsed in the area that the water is coming up from. If it's coming from a pipe sticking up from the ground, that is likely a "clean-out riser". If that's the case, it was probably installed after the initial sewer line was, just for the purpose of correcting this problem.

It doesn't sound as if your line is very deep, but before digging, I would suggest a reputable sewer/drain company and hang out to watch as they use the "clean-out".

Some tips as you're watching:

Don't tell him/her their job. Explain the sitch and expect them to be the professional.

Do let them know about the previous 500' dork (thief).

A broken, offset or collapsed sewer line will most often result in the blades or end of the cable coming back covered in mud. (This will require a dig-up to repair.) Chances are the cable will not make it past the break to the city sewer and it's way possible to get stuck.

A line with tree roots (most common) or other obstruction my be a battle, but it will clear and you can see the water drop from the clean-out riser or basement floor etc.

A line clogged with grease (cored) will usually take several passes to open and requires a different tool at the end of the cable than a blade. This tool is usually a 4' to 6' piece of cable with 45 degree or better kinks in it. It's called a whip. Characteristic of a cored or grease clogged sewer line is a strong garlic type smell.

I hope this helps. there are many variables and not being there is a restriction.

Good luck to you and your neighbor.

remember----no good deed ever goes unpunished....

master plumber mark said:

you have an old clay tile line that has gone bad...

you would have to be nuts to get up your butt digging in raw sewage mud trying to help out this old lady....

no good deed ever goes un-punished...
and you --my freind -- are going for maximinum punishment here......


but digging down by hand 6 feet deep
in satruated sewage mud is simply a silly way to proceed...
you will realize this for yourself I would guess at about 2 feet down......


the best course of action is to simply get a couple of estimates on how much it is gonna take to get her a new line dug out to the sewer

and stay out of the ditch....

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Hi all,
Thanks for the good advice, I'm surprised at so many negative posts, maybe my grammar or spelling gives the impression that I'm just a good neighbor but not very smart, I apologize for that impression.
I would like to give an example though: 2yrs ago our roof was in such a bad state we couldn't put it off any longer, we had estimates up to and above 8K
Cut a long story short, I'd never done a roof before so went to a professional roofers forum to ask advice, at that time I had never heard the word tress, long story short I replaced most of the tresses re-boarded the whole roof and shingles, I virtually re-built the whole roof and saved myself nearly 7K in the process, I did this alone and took all the precautions some obvious some not so obvious and this roof is probably more solid than the one next door which was done in 4 days by 5 guys.
I came here for professional advice to help me get to a point, if that meant getting advice to get the right tools to get even half way down to this pipe, or possibly expose the pipe so professionals could come in and look and give an honest estimate that's fine, I at least wanted to try to save her something. Let's assume she didn't say anything to me and let those guys carry on, they would have dug the hole, maybe down 5 or 6ft and found nothing, then they would have wanted to charge her yet another $1,000 to dig where the pipe was, we get these people all the time in this area, I'm in Gary, Indiana, it's not a particularly nice area and it's full of con-men
The guy who reckons he "routed" 500ft was from the city and didn't charge to do whatever it was he did, his only concern was that it wasn't a city problem, why he lied about the 500ft I don't know, but if a guy who didn't even charge for his service lied what kind of BS is someone going to give who does charge.
It doesn't really matter now, I've wasted to much of your time and you've had too much fun at my expense, I thought I was just going to get some professional advice on how to professionally approach the problem, if I got to a point where I couldn't go any further that would have been fine too, at least I would have tried.
Tony

Tony,

I apologize for some remarks made by others here, but most of the people here only tried to help you by stating the obvious ie, the dangers in digging the hole out.

I suggested something to you that I know would benefit your neighbor friend in a huge way. There are costs involved on her end to do a reverse mortage, but the benefits would outweigh the fees involved. The money she would get from doing the reverse mortage could be used to profit her in fixing the plumbing problems, and whatever else needs done; this would enable her to continue living there until she decides to either sell or move to a senior group home. There are so many older folks who do this.

I don't know the value of the home, nor do I wish to know, but, I am sure their is some value and she could use it now, and not wanting to sound rude instead of leaving it to others in her family, if she has one.

I would approach her about this if I were you. I am sure she doesn't know this exists and it might, just make her happy.

Wishing both of you the best and I commend you for your efforts to help someone in need.

Cookie

tony1lew said:

Hi all,
why he lied about the 500ft I don't know, but if a guy who didn't even charge for his service lied what kind of BS is someone going to give who does charge.
It doesn't really matter now, i've wasted to much of your time and you've had too much fun at my expense, I thought I was just going to get some professional advice on how to professionally approach the problem, if I got to a point where I couldn't go any further that would have been fine too, at least I would have tried.
Tony

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You don't get it do you? You seem to think that roofing a roof has the same variables and digging/wading through granny gravy in your neighbor's front yard. If you can't spell right, you probably can't count right either as the plumber probably went out 50 feet, not 500.

What you've missed completely is that there are professionals telling you the seriousness of your situation and you're blowing it off as cost infractions. If I had a dollar for every homeowner with a sob story that "I don't have money cuz" line, I'd be filthy rich. < heh, filthy

And who's to say you're honestly speaking in context of the actual situation?

People that are upset usually tend to bend the truth to enhance their cause, whether in print or in person.


And to Cass,


Little Timmy didn't make it. Something about complications and the fact that the open ditch of raw sewage sat open for days while granny kept flushing her special own bran muffins for everyone to see. Everyone wanted to help and spent hours on internet forums trying to get handyman rates to do the task.

Thank goodness the majority of sensible people address this matter immediately and hire professionals knowing the seriousness to their own family, as well as the potential victims around them.

Tony, I'm sorry you're miffed about negative comments. But I'm confused as to why you think that a plumber has to go through many years of training and experience and licensing and so on, and you think you can just ask a few questions on an internet site and you'll be qualified?

In addition, I didn't see where you posted any information about what state you're in, but most states require a license to do the sort of work you're planning to attempt. In addition to getting in over your head, you may be breaking the law as well.

Based upon what I've read in this thread, sunken ground indicates that the problem is far worse than water coming up in a pipe. It could be that the trench settled over a long period, or it could be that the pipe is broken and settling the ground in that area, and you're digging in the wrong place.

As to the pipe near the house, that could be a rain leader or it could be a cleanout pipe for the sewer, which is often required by code, and it means the pipe is not clear.

If it's "clay" pipe (terra cotta), there's a good chance it's in two-foot long sections and has broken hubs for its entire length. This type of pipe deteriorates with age, softens, and you can't fix it by making a patch - it all needs to be replaced, from the street to the house.

Like the others, I have sympathy for the old woman's plight, but it's time to be realistic. A professional with a cleaning machine and a drain camera can determine a lot more about the type and condition of the pipe, but that isn't cheap, either.

Where is the sewer main? How far is it from the house to the main? Do you even have a way to measure the distance? Where is the water supply to the house? Is it possible that any repair to the sewer line means that the water line must be sleeved or protected as per code? Do you know any of this?

There's a reason there are professionals. Do you do your own dental work? When's the last time you gave yourself a colonoscopy? Some things are beyond your expertise. The best way you can help this woman is to offer sympathy and money to help out. Enlist other neighbors in the project - after all, unhealthy plumbing in one house is not healthy for the neighborhood, as already mentioned. The first strict plumbing codes in this country were prompted by the outbreak of disease.

My plumbing code book states that "dangerous conditions" MUST be repaired - it's not optional.

Welcome Herk,

You know me "from that other site"


From your posts I already know that you treat your profession as valuable as I do.

It's tough in handyman land though. Everyone thinks that human secretions are just par for the course for a plumber so playing in it should be "no big deal".

RUGGED said:

You don't get it do you? You seem to think that roofing a roof has the same variables and digging/wading through granny gravy in your neighbor's front yard.

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You're right. The roofing job has a lot more variables than this plumbing job.

Tony: Find an honest plumber to rout out the line starting at the clean-out. If that doesn't solve the problem, you can save some money by doing your own digging. You're obviously smart enough to wear waterproof boots and rubber gloves to keep things as sanitary as possible and to put caution tape around the area you are working in. If you get in over your head, you can always call back that honest plumber.

Thank you to Jetpump for a very thoughtful and careful explanation of the situation.

For Tony1, I think amidst all the various posts, you have got the picture that you quite possibly could have a serious....meaning $$$$$.....problem on you hands. We can't help with the money part. I still say, it would be a good start for you to dig a couple of feet where you see the water coming up . You have read all about the hazards....don't dig too deep without shoring. Go to a hardware store, get some high water boots, some leather gloves, and some latex gloves. Don't track this stuff into your house.

Tony, in my humble opinion your neighbor, first and foremost, needs a second and third opinion. You are going forward based on what one guy told you, and everyone here seems to agree that this one guy seemed a little fishy. She should call a few other professionals out to review the landscape and give her a diagnosis and estimate. Maybe she can get these estimates for free, maybe she can get them for a relatively small sum of money. You can help her by being there and hearing what these people have to say and seeing what makes sense to you. If the ditch needs to be dug, maybe you can offer to help in that regard to keep the price down - I had just this exact situation in my old house, where a truck drove over and bent (but thankfully didn't break) the pipe leading out to the septic. Yes, my husband and I dug the hole, but only after a professional came out and diagnosed exactly what and where the problem was, and there was NO sewage bubbling out. I don't think you are doing her (and yourself, living in such close proximity) any favors by trying to fix a problem that seems to involve raw sewage.
Good luck to you both.

perhaps she should look into a reverse mortgage.

sarcasim sometimes works best.....

Hey, this fellow thinks that everyone is having fun a this expence....
I think that this is not so.....

Just because a lot of folks here are more colorful and descriptive
than others does not imply that they are being mean or in-sensitive to the situation...

I feel that everyone here is just trying to save the
fellow a lot of greif...

and I do commend him for the effort in helping the little old lady next door...
you just have got to know your limitations .
and when it is time to back off ....



lets say he spends the day digging 6 foot down
in raw sewage to find the root of Grannies problems in the front yard...

then ....only to discover that little granny had stopped up her line with her boyfreinds condoms.....

I would love to see the look on his face.......that would be priceless...

You deserve praise for helping, but what will she do when she has another 3-5k home maintenance expense such as boiler replace, roof, repipe, repaint, etc.? Perhaps there will always be neighborly support, and you can buy used equipment. This problem reflects a greater social problem, when you have one old pensioner living alone, without support from family. Cohabiting with extended family is perhaps not as common as it should be.

Molo

master plumber mark said:

then ....only to discover that little granny had stopped up her line with her boyfreinds condoms.....

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Mark, I kind of doubt it she, is 80 years old.