TonyKarns
In the Trades
good point
Good point Frenchie!
Good point Frenchie!
Perm. removed light. what do i do with wires?
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Alectrician
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Explain how it is bad/dangerous. We are NOT talking about splices/junctions here, we are talking about a dead end. If you equal the insulation of the sheathing it is as safe as the rest of the run.
You are TRYING to tell me that if you saw a piece of romex in a wall/ceiling/attic with tape insulating the dead end, you would "assume it's hot"?
Get serious.
When I see a wire, unless it's on a spool, I assume it's hot.
Conversation resuming:
There are connected live wires running throughout the house. They are covered with sheathing, it's called romex. Are you telling me that I can't insulate the end of a wire as well as the sheathing?
If done properly, taping the end of a cut nm is safe, no matter what the code says.
I am always open minded though so if someone give me a good reason why it's unsafe, I'm all ears.
I don't use the NEC as a bible, I use it as a reference. I feel that I am capable of deciding what is safe/unsafe. There are a few things that I flat out ignore (taping off dead end unused wiring) and there are other things that, even though ALLOWED by code, I would NEVER do (ie: exposed cable/SE).
Again, give me a good reason to change my ways. I'm alll ears.
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JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Safe in one persons mind is dangerous in other persons mind.
The NEC is a minimum SAFETY standard. The introduction to the code itself states this.
90.1 Purpose.
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.
(B) Adequacy. This Code contains provisions that are considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.
Doing anything less that the requirements of the code will result in an installation that is NOT SAFE
If I saw a piece of Non Metallic Cable anywhere that was taped on the end I would try to find out who made the installation and report them to the proper authorities.
Get real here. Cables that are installed with a nonmetallic sheathing is not necessarily Romex. The might be any one of a number of nonmetallic cable manufactures.
This is a mind set or would it be better to say opinion.
If done properly it would still be a violation of the NEC and if it is a violation of the NEC it can’t be safe.
All you have to do is look at here
Well my friend if you are doing work in a jurisdiction that has adopted the NEC or the IRC then the code is the LAW not something that you can choose to use or not.
As a side note I will point out that there are hundred of thousands of people in this nation that think that their idea of safety is far superior to those who spend their careers writing the codes and safety manuals. These same people have either filed on some insurance or are a ward of the state and the law abiding tax payers are supporting these self made safety experts.
Again all you have to do is look at here
Alectrician
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No sh.t Einstein. I can just picture you on a job saying that when someone asks for some romex.
Then you have some serious issues.
Sorry but that is just not true.
Is pvc buried at 17.75 inches unsafe?
Is screwing inside a plastic box to a stud unsafe?
Is stapling romex...yeah that's right, I called it romex..12" from a box unsafe?
How many times have you violated code but in your opinion it was safe?
Never?......Riiiiight
What I was asking for is a reasonable explanation of WHY it is unsafe. Because the bible says so aint good enough for me.
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JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Well if someone on the job ask me for some Romex I always take the time to give them a little education in Article 334 of the National Electrical Code.
Issues or not anyone that would tape the end of an energized wire and leave in hanging free needs to be fined to the max.
So now you are saying that your opinion out weighs the opinion of those who make the proposals and those who write the codes which are a minimum safety standard.
yes and also a code violation
Nor is it a code violation
Nor is it a code violation
Never
I don’t think that the Bible has anything to do with an electrical installation. If you were referring to the NEC then if it is adopted in your area then I suppose that the law would not be good enough for you either
Alectrician
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Heh heh. Why does that not surprise me. How much time do you spend each day trying to teach people that cola is not coke and facial tissue is not kleenex? I'm sure that no one is impressed.
Once again, please explain the scenario where this would be dangerous. I honestly want to learn. I am NOT afraid to change my methods but all I've heard so far is blah blah blah.
I'm no rocket surgeon but in some cases, yes.
JWelectric
Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Then to try and get you to see that the NEC is a minimum safety standard and to do anything less than what it requires would be unsafe would be futile.
You are already smarter than the rest of the world so you just keep hacking away until caught.
With the utter most of respect I think that you should not be giving your opinion to people that do not have knowledge of the codes instead of giving the code requirements and standing back asking for someone to explain why your idea is not as safe as what that is required by the code.
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You personality makes it difficult for you to think dimensionally. I would never EVER suggest that I am smarter than EVERYBODY. Hell, I BARELY made it through high school and most of the code book makes me scratch my head and go "huh?"
This doesn't mean that I am not better qualified than someone on a particular subject. I run across thing almost every single day that make me shake my head. Engineers and brainiacs get paid BIG dollars to design things and they aren't smart enough to actually see if it will work in the field. You HAVE to know what I'm talking about.
You are a teacher and I barely finished high school, but for your future reference, I am pretty sure it's "utmost repect".
In turn, I think you should be able to explain "why" instead of just repeating "That's what the code says". I am an intellect and I feel the need to know why. I am also never afraid to make a decision for myself.
PS. In the future, referring to me as a hack will only make you look more stupid. I do OK.
Also, Im still waiting for an explanation from ANYONE why my method is unsafe.
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I don't think I'll EVER understand this train of thought.
You are saying "I don't like it, therefore it should not exist". Don't you see the problem with that?
Do you walk into a conversation in real life and tell the people they can't continue? I doubt it.
Why are people so afraid of discussion? It is generally good for society. If it bothers you, don't participate.
You know, you don't HAVE to read it but someone else might want to.
It's simple really. If NO ONE wants to participate, it goes away.
You are saying "I don't like it, therefore it should not exist". Don't you see the problem with that?
Do you walk into a conversation in real life and tell the people they can't continue? I doubt it.
Why are people so afraid of discussion? It is generally good for society. If it bothers you, don't participate.
You know, you don't HAVE to read it but someone else might want to.
It's simple really. If NO ONE wants to participate, it goes away.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Well, I tend to agree...name calling doesn't get anywhere useful.
As listed in my sig line, I'm not a pro. I don't necessarily agree with everything in the code books, but I do do it by the book. The problem is, not being a pro, sometimes I don't actually know what is right. Being an educated person, I either look for the answer, or using what I do know, make it work through research. My goal is never produce an unsafe product. When installing something, the average person doesn't think of all of the possibilities of what could go wrong. The codes try to account for that by being a group effort that has been refined over many years, taking into account some of those weird situations that could cause a problem. Most people would never see or experience all of those situations. But, by doing things by the codes, you should avoid having to learn the hard way. The code books don't need to explain why, but from what I understand, there is a valid reason. You can probably find it out if you research it, but most people just learn what is the code, and abide by it. If you are curious enough, go search out the rationale. The codes are a huge body of knowledge and experience...take advantage of them and avoid a dangerous situation, even if you don't understand why.
I'm going to try my moderator privaleges and close this after this post. It can be reopened by a moderator, I think, if deemed done in error.
As listed in my sig line, I'm not a pro. I don't necessarily agree with everything in the code books, but I do do it by the book. The problem is, not being a pro, sometimes I don't actually know what is right. Being an educated person, I either look for the answer, or using what I do know, make it work through research. My goal is never produce an unsafe product. When installing something, the average person doesn't think of all of the possibilities of what could go wrong. The codes try to account for that by being a group effort that has been refined over many years, taking into account some of those weird situations that could cause a problem. Most people would never see or experience all of those situations. But, by doing things by the codes, you should avoid having to learn the hard way. The code books don't need to explain why, but from what I understand, there is a valid reason. You can probably find it out if you research it, but most people just learn what is the code, and abide by it. If you are curious enough, go search out the rationale. The codes are a huge body of knowledge and experience...take advantage of them and avoid a dangerous situation, even if you don't understand why.
I'm going to try my moderator privaleges and close this after this post. It can be reopened by a moderator, I think, if deemed done in error.
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