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Thread: Who is KCPL trying to protect?

  1. #106
    Licensed Electrical Contractor Speedy Petey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho View Post
    This thread will continue until [Lee's] personalit[y] [is] no longer placed above principles and that message is clear to everyone!
    Hey, I'm good at that quoting thing too.

    Lee, you as bad as anyone here.

    Can we let this crap go and agree to disagree?? Please!

  2. #107
    DIY Member enosez's Avatar
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    I say take a vote to see what everyone thinks!

  3. #108
    Sprinkler Guy Wet_Boots's Avatar
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    I think the horse was dead a long time ago, and whining about being criticized for irresponsible postings is counter-productive. And picking apart other postings with quoted excerpts is appropriate for folks with no positive contributions to make.

  4. #109

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    Not quite...
    Last edited by Cookie; 10-26-2007 at 06:20 AM.

  5. #110
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho View Post
    Whoa! Whether licensed as an electrician or not, Bob is no amateur.
    Up to this point I have only addressed the advice that Bob gave about the use of an unlisted tool to cut an energized conductor.
    Then Joseph Lee O comes into the discussion and starts defending the use of a lawn and garden tool to cut energized conductors and defending Bob as not being an amateur.

    I will not debate weather or not you or Bob are amateurs or not but I can debate weather Bob has very much of an idea of what he is talking about or not. Anyone with enough knowledge of electrical to give advice on how to do a service change out would have enough knowledge to know that you would NEVER;
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob NH View Post
    5. Ran the new Grounding Equipment Conductor to the Grounding Electrodes.
    The only conductors that EVER connect to the grounding electrodes are 1- the grounding electrode conductor and 2- the electrode bonding jumpers.

    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho View Post
    However, the arrogant and attempted trashing of Bob (and even a few cheap shots taken at me) as some kind of incompetent fool has not be an accurate, effective, educational, helpful or acceptable way to address that matter.
    I have not attempted to trash You or Bob. The only thing I have done is elaborate on how crazy it was to use a lawn and garden tool to cut an energized conductor.

    If it had been my intention to trash Bob I would have picked apart his method and misuse in terminology. I would have addressed the giving of advice on a site directed to the Do-It-Yourself or ever working on any live circuit. This in itself is a violation of the law as adopted by the federal government, state and local laws. (OSHA)

    This is NOT a discussion of the knowledge of any individual person or that person’s knowledge of electricity.

    What this discussion IS about is the use of a lawn and garden tool being used to cut an energized conductor. I have said and will continue to say that anyone that would use a lawn and garden tool to cut an energized conductor as well as anyone that would advocate such an action is a few eggs short of a dozen. Their elevator is stuck in the basement. They have a hole in their pocket and are losing their marvels. They are a few brick short of a full load. They have not yet earned the right to be called an amateur. But then again I am discussing this with someone that can’t see any danger in letting a small child play around a job site while work is taking place.
    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho View Post
    my grandchildren are at times right there alongside as my son-in-law and I work on our addition,...
    I suppose that if someone can not see the danger in something then they assume that no danger exist.

  6. #111
    Rancher
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric
    If it had been my intention to trash Bob I would have picked apart his method and misuse in terminology. I would have addressed the giving of advice on a site directed to the Do-It-Yourself or ever working on any live circuit. This in itself is a violation of the law as adopted by the federal government, state and local laws. (OSHA)
    I hate to contribute to continuing this thread, but jw, please quote me the OSHA or federal law that restricts a Do-it-Yourselfer from doing what Bob did... there isn't one.

    On the other hand I did exactly what Bob did about 25 years ago, I re-located my Power Entrance Panel, but instead of doing it myself I called the power company because I knew they would do it for free, this may not be the case in all parts of the country.

    But there is no OSHA ruling that would have prevented me from doing so, after all OSHA protects the employees of the companies that use tree loppers for cutting cable, not the general public.

    I don't think Bob was giving advice on how to do it, but just how he did it.

    Rancher

  7. #112

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    Rancher,

    I think, that horse is for sale before he gets on his last leg,

    Cookie

  8. #113
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    What this discussion IS about is the use of a lawn and garden tool being used to cut an energized conductor. [Nevertheless] I have said and will continue to say that anyone that would ...
    Which is it? Tools, or people being discussed?!

    Also, your assumption that my grandchildren play nearby while my son-in-law and I work on our addition is *completely* incorrect. When they have "play breaks", they go with adult supervision to the sand box on the other side of the house.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
    Can we let this crap go and agree to disagree??
    About what, or who, or ...?!

    I got to thinking last night, and it struck me that pruning loppers pre-date any and all electrical tools by probably at least a century or two ... and what does that have to do with anything here? I just have to believe the early electricians did exactly as Bob did by analyzing their "loppers" and using them to cut wires (even hot ones) if their loppers were deemed safe, and that they continued doing so until somebody later decided to make some special ones with guaranteed safety and higher prices. I have decided not to take the time to do this, but I am willing to bet a compilation of Bob's description of the tool he used would be commended if his mention of the brand name and "pruning lopper" were ignored.

    Speedy: Would you at least consider considering to agree about that? If so, I might just go ahead and put that description together for you or anyone else to review.

  9. #114

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    Well, Lee, my family goes back with electricity since Ben Franklin's time. I think, my dad held his kite for him.

    Check out this nice site, where I spent many moons in Philly.
    http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/info/kite.htm


    I got to tell you, there just are correct ways of doing things to this date and it just doesn't matter how things were done days of yesteryear. What does matter is of today.

    We are very fortunate with all the knowledge we have, fortunate to have all the data we can resort to for further knowledge and skill. Baaaaack in the olden days they had to resort to using some element of risk but not now. We learned by their mistakes.

    Now we just simply know better. Don't you just agree with this?
    Last edited by Cookie; 10-27-2007 at 06:23 AM.

  10. #115
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    I got to tell you, there just are correct ways of doing things to this date and it just doesn't matter how things were done days of yesteryear. What does matter is of today.

    We are very fortunate with all the knowledge we have, fortunate to have all the data we can resort to for further knowledge and skill. Baaaaack in the olden days they had to resort to using some element of risk but not now. We learned by their mistakes.

    Now we just simply know better. Don't you just agree with this?
    No, Cookie, and especially not in the context of this discussion. What is safe is safe and what is not is not, and that was no different in the past than it is today. Now yes, we might today have some larger accumulations of knowledge related to safety, but we also have alleged do-gooders presuming to do everyone's thinking for them ... and that can actually leave people more greatly endangered.

    Oh, and did you happen to see MythBusters testing kites and keys a few days ago? Ben Franklin's type of string can actually pick up a measurable static charge even in dry air, and with some difficulty, they were able to get a very small spark to jump from a key while in a well-controlled laboratory setting. Overall, however, their experiments "busted" the myth that Ben survived a fingertip engagement with a lightning bolt!

  11. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho View Post
    What is safe is safe and what is not is not,
    That is exactly what everyone has been very clearly saying.

  12. #117
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho View Post
    Also, your assumption that my grandchildren play nearby while my son-in-law and I work on our addition is *completely* incorrect. When they have "play breaks", they go with adult supervision to the sand box on the other side of the house.
    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho View Post
    You crack me up! As long as we are on the ground, my grandchildren are at times right there alongside as my son-in-law and I work on our addition, and those boys have yet to receive a single scratch anywhere! We have some simple "safety rules" we *never* compromise, and my grandchildren are learning safety right along with driving nails into large blocks of soft wood....
    Now you are truly cracking me up.

    The little arrow in the blue box beside your name will take you to the post that YOU made yourself. Only you or a moderator can edit your post so I do believe you are now trying to say two different things.
    First you say that, “my grandchildren are at times right there alongside as my son-in-law and I work on our addition” but now you are saying, “When they have "play breaks", they go with adult supervision to the sand box on the other side of the house.”

    I am inclined to believe the first post that the children do play around the construction site based on the pictures that has been posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rancher View Post
    OSHA or federal law. Rancher
    This should have been posted to say the “rule” as adopted not “law”
    You are correct that the Department of Labor will not fine an individual for doing his own work and the reference to OSHA was to point out that there are special precautions that are to be taken when working on energized circuits. The safety precautions that are taken not the enforcement of the rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    That is exactly what everyone has been very clearly saying.
    I believe he understands but is to bull headed to admit to it.

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