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Thread: Cleanouts Questions

  1. #1

    Default Cleanouts Questions

    I am replacing cast ion pipes with schedule 40. To route the toilet branch from vertical to horizontal, I used a Y. Can I replace the Y with 45 elbow, or a 90 long sweep, saving the cleanout?
    http://picasaweb.google.com/abrahuan...27117896496402

    Another cleanout question is when I was replacing the vent part, because of the change of direction from the original cast ion pipe, the horizontal end was blocked by the chimney. Since the neoprene 90 long sweep elbow can be disassambled easily, we can always access the section of pipe from this point. Is a cleanout still required in such case?
    http://picasaweb.google.com/abrahuan...31047791572258
    Last edited by abrahuang; 09-30-2007 at 10:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Plumber BAPlumber's Avatar
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    It's tough to say with the differances in codes from area to area.

    In my area, to the first question, a long turn 90 would be okay as long as there is a clean out at the base of the stack.

    I don't know of any area where the rubber, furnco 90's, are legal. If the clean out was blocked I'd go down stream and install one.
    Brent

  3. #3
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default drains

    1. No code will allow that rubber elbow.
    2. You can change the Y to a long radius elbow, as long as the cleanout is relocated, or there is one elsewhere in the line.
    3. Unless your block foundation is tilted, the line to the Y is backpitched.

  4. #4
    Homeowner geniescience's Avatar
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    is there a vent in the toilet line above what the photo shows?

    if you haven't connected all this yet, and the photos just show a simulation or a dry fit prior to gluing, then consider putting the toilet cleanout higher up, like at the previous corner where there is a 45degree bend right now.

    You can also re-do that toilet line with a straight line using a Wye at the stack, and redo the sink line with a connection higher up too.

    david

  5. #5
    Licensed Grump GrumpyPlumber's Avatar
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    HJ caught what I saw...there's a back pitch on the horizontal toilet drain.
    Open the end cleanout and bad things will happen.
    "The biggest regrets we have in life are the chances we never took."

  6. #6

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    Hi, Geniescience, there is no vent for the toilet branch; it is 4 feet from the flange to stack. Is it still good to replace the Tee with Wye? An existing cleanout is on the stack just above ground. The horizontal 90 vent bend connects to a 1 1/2 vent for a basement sink(the little white thing at the conner). How high can I raise the sink Tee in this case? Do I need at least 6" inch between the Tee and the branch vent for basement sink?
    Last edited by abrahuang; 10-01-2007 at 11:10 AM.

  7. #7

    Default

    BA, hj and Grumpy:
    Don't worry about the back pitch, it's a dry fit, so "something" is not there yet, but I will make sure this will not really happen.
    I have a cleanout at the base of the stack, so I guess I will change the Y with a long radius elbow. How if a Wye instead of Tee on the stack? Will that cause "break of vent"? I don't have other pipes connected onto the toilet branch, so would the break matter?
    It seems nobody favors the 90 rubber bend. It shoud be banned from the market, so people like me won't be enticed to buy it I will change it to a rubber coupling to a plastic 90 bend and install a Wye with cleanout just next to the 90 bend in the down stream.

  8. #8
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Anything above ground needs to be a nohub, metal reinforced coupling.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #9
    Homeowner geniescience's Avatar
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    uh-oh. Bigger problem in sight now. Not sure if I can explain it in just a few words.

    With no vent, that toilet line shouldn't sink so low down before it gets connected to the stack. Regardless of whether or not it is attached with a Tee or a Wye. When the toilet waste line remains in the same horizontal plane (because no vent), then a Tee is the right fitting to use.

    I guess this means the whole thing gets redone from scratch, keeping the toilet line in the same plane, and bringing in the (vented) bathroom sink line wherever it will fit best, even maybe crossing over to come in from the other side. Work on the right geometry to get the toilet line to the stack with a minor slope, and then work on the vented bathroom sink line after that. -- AFAIK.

    david

  10. #10
    Licensed Grump GrumpyPlumber's Avatar
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    Right Dave, a closets standpipe shouldn't exceed 20" without a vent.
    "The biggest regrets we have in life are the chances we never took."

  11. #11

    Default

    David: I loweredd the toilet waste by 45 degree to the horizontal Wye. How does it looks this time? I used the fittings on hands, but I can lower the toilet waste before it goes horizontal too when got the long turn elbow. I don't know how it is going to affect the restriction of standpipe.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/abrahuan...95591730754866

    Grumpy: Can you further explain the standpipe?

    Many thanks for you guys!

  12. #12
    Plumber patrick88's Avatar
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    I would not set it up that way. I would lower your other branch line and place the toilet above it. I would come off the stack to the toilet as straight as you can get then use a 90 or wye with a 45 and an end clean out.

    I'm just starting to work with an old friend of mine to bring solar electric and hot water systems, wind turbines, Flex Fuel Boilers, batteries, hydroponic gardening, books, pellet grills and more. Also the parts for DIY installation.

  13. #13

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    It will be good if I can raise the toilet line, a local plumber told me to connect toilet line to the stack first(is it because waste from sink is good to flush toilet waste , or if save heavy pipes the same time, or both?), so I followed his instruction. Now it seems not so critical.
    There is a sink on the cleanout side that is gonna to be revented. After rising, I'd like to connect it after the toilet Wye, which is now connected upto the 2" Tee. Could you see any problem with this plan?
    Last edited by abrahuang; 10-02-2007 at 07:12 PM.

  14. #14
    Plumber patrick88's Avatar
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    If you are putting the toilet above the 4"X2" branch that sounds good. Keep this as short and straight as you can. Putting all those fittings in the toilet drop was a bad choice. The best rule of thumb is to "use the least fittings as you can". If a plumber put that in and charged you for each fitting you would probably flip because of the cost of the fittings. Just think if it looks wrong it is wrong.

    Yes putting the 4"X4" inplace of the 4"X2" is a better choice and make sure you use a 90 for the toilet not a bunch of fittings. You do have the choice of a wye and 45 with a clean out.
    Last edited by patrick88; 10-02-2007 at 07:24 PM.
    I'm just starting to work with an old friend of mine to bring solar electric and hot water systems, wind turbines, Flex Fuel Boilers, batteries, hydroponic gardening, books, pellet grills and more. Also the parts for DIY installation.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick88
    If you are putting the toilet above the 4"X2" branch that sounds good. Keep this as short and straight as you can. Putting all those fittings in the toilet drop was a bad choice. The best rule of thumb is to "use the least fittings as you can". If a plumber put that in and charged you for each fitting you would probably flip because of the cost of the fittings. Just think if it looks wrong it is wrong.

    Yes putting the 4"X4" inplace of the 4"X2" is a better choice and make sure you use a 90 for the toilet not a bunch of fittings. You do have the choice of a wye and 45 with a clean out.
    It's much clearer now. I am going to make the changes and show you the photo asap. Thank you so much!
    Last edited by abrahuang; 10-02-2007 at 08:38 PM.

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