Electrical Advice?
- Thread starter LarryP
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
Sponsor
Paid Advertisement
Geniescience
Homeowner
here is a great electrical DIY forum: https://terrylove.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9
The big problem with electric people is that they deal with electricity. It warps their thinking.
Since it can hurt you, they get it drummed into them that all information and knowledge is dangerous to share, since any dolt can get a jolt, injuring or killing himself and burning the family and the neighborhood to boot.
All just by playing with wires after thinking he knows something worth checking out.
Here is a statement I found printed inside my front loading washer:
WARNING This information is intended for use by persons having electrical and mechaincal training and a level of knowledge of these subjects generally considered acceptable in the appliance repair trade. The manufacturer or seller can not be responsible, no assume and liability, for injury or damage of any kind arising from the use of this data.
IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE This information is intended for use by technicians possessing adequate background of electrical, electronic and mechanical experience. Any attempt to repair a major appliance may result in personal injury and property damage. The manufacturer or seller cannot be responsible for the interpretation of this information, nor can it assume any liability in connection with its use. .--.
whew!
Electrical guys seem to be stuck on NOT helping DIY since the DIY reading it now or lurking browsing and gleaning in the future may not be up to that level necessary.... That is the Tedesco-like mindset; since he doesn't "know" that you are capable, he will refuse to share.
With plumbing you still have dangerous situations, but not instant dangers like voltages.
The best DIY forums will always be run by plumbers. They have the broadest exposure to risks so they can explain things with the clearest mind. Not too breezy and flip, not too suspicious and insulting.
david
The big problem with electric people is that they deal with electricity. It warps their thinking.
Since it can hurt you, they get it drummed into them that all information and knowledge is dangerous to share, since any dolt can get a jolt, injuring or killing himself and burning the family and the neighborhood to boot.
All just by playing with wires after thinking he knows something worth checking out.
Here is a statement I found printed inside my front loading washer:
WARNING This information is intended for use by persons having electrical and mechaincal training and a level of knowledge of these subjects generally considered acceptable in the appliance repair trade. The manufacturer or seller can not be responsible, no assume and liability, for injury or damage of any kind arising from the use of this data.
IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE This information is intended for use by technicians possessing adequate background of electrical, electronic and mechanical experience. Any attempt to repair a major appliance may result in personal injury and property damage. The manufacturer or seller cannot be responsible for the interpretation of this information, nor can it assume any liability in connection with its use. .--.
whew!Electrical guys seem to be stuck on NOT helping DIY since the DIY reading it now or lurking browsing and gleaning in the future may not be up to that level necessary.... That is the Tedesco-like mindset; since he doesn't "know" that you are capable, he will refuse to share.
With plumbing you still have dangerous situations, but not instant dangers like voltages.
The best DIY forums will always be run by plumbers. They have the broadest exposure to risks so they can explain things with the clearest mind. Not too breezy and flip, not too suspicious and insulting.
david
Chris75
Electrician
The problem with electricity is you won't know you did something wrong until it is too late... it really is that serious...
Frenchie
Jack of all trades
Genie, you are so full of it.
Mike Whitt, electrical instructor by trade, answers any question anyone wants to ask here. Speedy Petey, Bob, Chris... lots of sparkies spreading their knowledge. I'm just a GC, but I share what I've picked up, too...
What bothers me, and a lot of electricians, is when someone who doesn't have electrical knowledge, posts a wrong answer that may create an unsafe situation; or when you tell someone that what they're proposing is dangerous & illegal, and they want to argue about it.
Electricity is dangerous, you know.
That makes it completely different from plumbing - unless you want to talk about gas lines or steam systems - which I note plumbers usually discourage people from DIYing.
The only part of your post I agree with, is that the best DIY board (singular) is run by a plumber.
Mike Whitt, electrical instructor by trade, answers any question anyone wants to ask here. Speedy Petey, Bob, Chris... lots of sparkies spreading their knowledge. I'm just a GC, but I share what I've picked up, too...
What bothers me, and a lot of electricians, is when someone who doesn't have electrical knowledge, posts a wrong answer that may create an unsafe situation; or when you tell someone that what they're proposing is dangerous & illegal, and they want to argue about it.
Electricity is dangerous, you know.
That makes it completely different from plumbing - unless you want to talk about gas lines or steam systems - which I note plumbers usually discourage people from DIYing.
The only part of your post I agree with, is that the best DIY board (singular) is run by a plumber.
Verdeboy
In the Trades
- Messages
- 2,041
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 0
I disagree with singling out electricians and painting them with a broad brush as "warped in their thinking." As a self-confessed Handyman, I've been the target of some plumbers, some electricians, and most recently, one angry carpenter. The problem with some of these tradesmen is that they feel (unnecessarily) threatened by the likes of me. Or that me and my kind are a menace to society. They don't seem to get it, that those who would hire them, wouldn't hire me, and vise-versa. There's a place for all of us. Nobody's taking food out of anybody's mouth...geniescience said:
I can't think of any more cliches.
Pretty much the only time a plumber gets killed on a job, is when it crosses over into electrical. They might be flux or torch burns, but not much else.
One of my local inspectors had a friend that died in a crawlspace while doing a repipe.
He cut the pipe, and lost the ground for the electrical panel.
He became the ground and died.
Now that city requires pretty hefty grounding on a repipe.
There is a lot of good advice being given out.
I think guys like Mike and the others should be thanked for their help.
One of my local inspectors had a friend that died in a crawlspace while doing a repipe.
He cut the pipe, and lost the ground for the electrical panel.
He became the ground and died.
Now that city requires pretty hefty grounding on a repipe.
There is a lot of good advice being given out.
I think guys like Mike and the others should be thanked for their help.
Last edited:
Leejosepho
DIY scratch-pad engineer
- Messages
- 2,483
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 36
- Location
- 200 miles south of Little Rock
- Website
- www.nonameyet.org
geniescience said:
I had never before thought about that, but there seems to be some truth there. Plumbers have to deal with related framing and wiring issues far more than carpenters or electricians ever have to deal with plumbing issues ...
Has everybody hugged their plumber today?!
Frenchie
Jack of all trades
Verdeboy said:The problem with some of these tradesmen is that they feel (unnecessarily) threatened by the likes of me. Or that me and my kind are a menace to society. They don't seem to get it, that those who would hire them, wouldn't hire me, and vise-versa. There's a place for all of us. Nobody's taking food out of anybody's mouth...
Gee, Eric... maybe you should try not thinking in cliches, then, and actually read what people post, instead.
The angry carpenter (I assume you mean me?) used to be an unlicensed handyman. Oops - none of your cliches are applicable here. Try again.
BTW, you completely missed the reference to Harry Buttle, didn't you?
Plumbers rock. If I had to start over... I'd be a plumber.
Last edited by a moderator:
Verdeboy
In the Trades
- Messages
- 2,041
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 0
Actually, I was referring to "Tool Addict" and wasn't even going to bring up our recent exchange.frenchie said:
As far as the cliches, you've only been here for a short time. There have been several threads started by tradesmen who believe that handymen do greatly impact their business, and they would like to see us disappear. Most of them have been plumbers. Although the point is only tangentially related to Genie's comments, it goes without saying that DIY'ers also include the so-called Handy-Hackers. So, his comments about how electricians feel about DIY'ers are also applicable to how electricians feel about Handymen.
My point is that not all tradesmen, whether electricians or plumbers or carpenters, etc.. are reluctant to disseminate useful information. And that the ones who are, are either worried that we will mess everything up, or that by giving us this information, they may be shooting themselves in the wallet.
Last edited:
Frenchie
Jack of all trades
Verdeboy said:
Oops, my bad.
Since the topic was electricity, I figured...
Yeah, I know, I need to get over myself, right?
I've actually been lurking for ages. And I got jumped by Kordst on my 1st post, for winterizing my boss' house even though I'm not a plumber. So I know... I know.
You would think so; but I find most sparkies treat DIYers pretty differently from handymen. So does the law.
...but let's not bother revisiting that.
How'd you like the deNiro clip?
Frenchie
Jack of all trades
I made reference to the character, during one of our... misunderstandings.
Something along the lines of "if you're being Harry Tuttle, they're out to get you already, so cover your ass."
...I keep forgetting how little-known that movie is.
Something along the lines of "if you're being Harry Tuttle, they're out to get you already, so cover your ass."
...I keep forgetting how little-known that movie is.
hj
Master Plumber
- Messages
- 33,603
- Reaction score
- 1,042
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Cave Creek, Arizona
- Website
- www.terrylove.com
electricity
I you have lived with an electrician for all those years and didn't think he was 'different", maybe the problem was you. I once replaced an electric water heater. After loosening the unions, I hit them with my wrench to separate them, (after years of working in Chicago, you learn not to touch plumbing pipes until you are sure they are not charged). When they came apart there was a spark across one of them. I found the lady of the house and told her that she might want to call an electrician to check her wiring. She asked me, "Is that the reason all the light bulbs just burned out and the TV is smoking?". I said, "Probably". And grabbed the console TV/stereo and put it in the front yard. Next I called my friend the city's electrical inspector. He discovered that the original builder/contractor had done his own electrical work and used the steel shell from a length of BX as the ground wire. It had rusted out, and the utility's neutral had broken, so the plumbing became the neutral wire. When I disconnected the heater everything in the house went to 240 volts, and anything that was not on a balanced load burned out.
I you have lived with an electrician for all those years and didn't think he was 'different", maybe the problem was you. I once replaced an electric water heater. After loosening the unions, I hit them with my wrench to separate them, (after years of working in Chicago, you learn not to touch plumbing pipes until you are sure they are not charged). When they came apart there was a spark across one of them. I found the lady of the house and told her that she might want to call an electrician to check her wiring. She asked me, "Is that the reason all the light bulbs just burned out and the TV is smoking?". I said, "Probably". And grabbed the console TV/stereo and put it in the front yard. Next I called my friend the city's electrical inspector. He discovered that the original builder/contractor had done his own electrical work and used the steel shell from a length of BX as the ground wire. It had rusted out, and the utility's neutral had broken, so the plumbing became the neutral wire. When I disconnected the heater everything in the house went to 240 volts, and anything that was not on a balanced load burned out.
Frenchie
Jack of all trades
HJ -
Doesn't your story, about an unqualified person doing the wiring, illustrates the opposite point? That sparkies are not weird/crazy, but rather that there's a reason they always stress safety?
Doesn't your story, about an unqualified person doing the wiring, illustrates the opposite point? That sparkies are not weird/crazy, but rather that there's a reason they always stress safety?
Speedbump
Active Member
HJ,
Thank you for not saying Electric "HOT" Water Heater. It always kills me when someone describes one with the word Hot in front.
You guys have to think about some of this DIY stuff a little further. How many of us Licensed guys/gals have become DIY'ers in other trades that we are not licensed in "even if" it was only on our own equipment? I think there is a little DIY'er in all of us. And always remember the cartoon with the the Plumbers Caption saying: I love it when someone turns a $50.00 job into a $350.00 job.
bob...
Thank you for not saying Electric "HOT" Water Heater. It always kills me when someone describes one with the word Hot in front.
You guys have to think about some of this DIY stuff a little further. How many of us Licensed guys/gals have become DIY'ers in other trades that we are not licensed in "even if" it was only on our own equipment? I think there is a little DIY'er in all of us. And always remember the cartoon with the the Plumbers Caption saying: I love it when someone turns a $50.00 job into a $350.00 job.
bob...
I'm just a GC...
(Been on R&R 4 days...just catching up!)
Frenchie, you don't give yourself enough credit...
I have great respect for most of the plumbers/electricians in the trades.I always think of them as the "doctors" in the construction field.They have to do a good job every time or bad things happen if they don't.
As GC's we have to bring all the trades together in certain order and at the right time.We have to have a working knowledge of each of the trades to pull this off.When problems arise the trades look to us for solutions.
I personally look at new building/remodeling as if it's a chess game.I have to be thinking 20 moves ahead of everybody else.While I might not be able to quote chapter and verse specific codes related to the specialty trades I can sure tell if something has not been done to code.I bet you can too...
I believe in sharing knowledge with others but I have to take responsibilty for giving correct information.The problem is how the information is used/misused.
I think thats why alot of sparkys don't give out info.It's often misused...
frenchie said:
(Been on R&R 4 days...just catching up!)
Frenchie, you don't give yourself enough credit...
I have great respect for most of the plumbers/electricians in the trades.I always think of them as the "doctors" in the construction field.They have to do a good job every time or bad things happen if they don't.
As GC's we have to bring all the trades together in certain order and at the right time.We have to have a working knowledge of each of the trades to pull this off.When problems arise the trades look to us for solutions.
I personally look at new building/remodeling as if it's a chess game.I have to be thinking 20 moves ahead of everybody else.While I might not be able to quote chapter and verse specific codes related to the specialty trades I can sure tell if something has not been done to code.I bet you can too...
I believe in sharing knowledge with others but I have to take responsibilty for giving correct information.The problem is how the information is used/misused.
I think thats why alot of sparkys don't give out info.It's often misused...
