submersible pump

[jim hay]

Can a pump be operated on it's side or is it required to be vertical. Being used in a holding tank and want it right on the bottom to take advantage of full capacity of tank..

[Rancher]

People do it, however....

Franklin electric says:

Franklin submersible motors are designed primarily for operation in the vertical, shaft-up position. During acceleration, the pump thrust increases as its output head increases. In cases where the pump head stays below its normal operating range during startup and full speed condition, the pump may create upward thrust. This creates upward thrust on the motor upthrust bearing. This is an acceptable operation for short periods at each start, but running continuously with upthrust will cause excessive wear on the upthrust bearing.

As the mounting position becomes further from vertical and closer to horizontal, the probability of shortened thrust bearing life increases. For normal motor life expectancy with motor positions other than shaft-up, follow these recommendations:

1. Minimize the frequency of starts, preferably to fewer than 10 per 24-hour period. 6” and 8” motors should have a minimum of 20 minutes between starts or starting attempts.

2. Do not use in systems which can run even for short periods at full speed without thrust toward the motor.

Rancher

[jim hay]

Is my logic sound by placing the pump horizonal to gain capacity on the 1500 gal holding tank or is there a better way?

[speedbump]

You can also use the Cycle Stop Valve. The valve will prevent the upthrust.
Cycle Stop Valves

bob...

[Gary Slusser]

I suggest you hang it vertically.

Why do you want all you can get out of a 1500 gal tank? You do realize that if you refill it out of a well, you need to take all that water at once or somehow time the well, and the well may not be capable of say 1300 gals all at once.

So how do you plan on refilling the 1500 gal tank?

[jim hay]

tank is being filled from well producing 6 gpm

[Rancher]

The valve will prevent the upthrust.

How?

Rancher

[Rancher]

Most that use a storage tank approach do so because we have a low producing well, but tend only to use the upper 25% of the water in the storage tank before starting the re-fill process, if you have the water available to fill the 1,500 tank all at once, you probably don't need the tank.

Rancher

[jim hay]

Do electric float values have enough lag time so pump filling tank doesn't recycle too often?

[Rancher]

Can you tell us what float switch you are considering?

If you start the refill at the 75% full point it will take 62 minutes to refill, assuming you aren't using any water at the time, if you are using water, of course it will take longer. 25% of 1,500 gallons is 375 gallons, which is what a small household without irrigation might use per day, so your pump would cycle once a day. The reason why we don't allow the tank to go all the way to empty before starting to re-fill, is for instance assume your 1,500 gallon tank was down to the point the submersible pump layed on it's side was starting to suck air thru a whirlpool effect. You might have 8" of water left in the bottom of the tank, and you would be filling at 6 GPM, what if your lawn sprinklers came on at that time and they required 20 GPM, they would over use what was left in your tank and the well pump couldn't keep up. Think of it as a buffer, it allows you to use water at whatever flow rate you need without worrying about running out.

Rancher

[Raucina]

The solution is pretty elemental, build a sealed flow inducer sleeve, it slips over the pump...with 4 or 6" pipe that causes the water to be drawn from the bottom. Cut 'V's" in the bottom for the water to pass. This solves your other issue of motor overheating, and now its standing upright. A cycle stop valve wont stop upthrust on start up, and will not allow the motor to be laid down.

I would rather abandon the last foot of storage, or use a multi stage booster outside the tank.

[speedbump]

How?

Rancher

As soon as the pump turns on, the CSV will be holding the pump back which would eliminate upthrust. Upthrust happens when the pump can get more water than it needs with a high water level environment. The impellers actually move up instead of the normal downward motion. The pumps I sell have upthrust prevention built in, so it's no big deal. You can prevent upthrust by using a simple valve if need be.

bob...

[jim hay]

I haven't picked one out yet because I wanted one that would allow draw down on tank of at least 25%. Also is the pump tech best way to shut off pump supplying water to holding tank if well runs out of water? Thanks. No pressure tank on this system.

[jim hay]

[QUOTE=Raucina]The solution is pretty elemental, build a sealed flow inducer sleeve, it slips over the pump...with 4 or 6" pipe that causes the water to be drawn from the bottom. Cut 'V's" in the bottom for the water to pass. This solves your other issue of motor overheating, and now its standing upright. A cycle stop valve wont stop upthrust on start up, and will not allow the motor to be laid down.

I would rather abandon the last foot of storage, or use a multi stage booster outside the tank.[what do you mean by a multistage booster? would this replace the submersible pump?/QUOTE]

[speedbump]

You can get 25% with most tanks or you can spread out the on/off settings of the pressure switch to get the same result. But I still say go with a small 42 gallon equivalent tank and a CSV. Problem solved.

bob...