Disconnect for water heater??

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HammerSlammer

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I'm moving my water heater and I guess i will need a disconnect at the new location. So i'm thinking a metal box with a double pole single throw 30 amp switch will do. Am I close?? Thanks!!
 

Speedy Petey

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NO! Expensive and more work.
Use a plain 60A non-fused "pull-out" type disconnect. The type used for A/C installations. They are fully self contained and run about 10 bucks.
 

HammerSlammer

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Chris75 said:
Or

Maybe he's moving the heater next to the panel so he would not even need a separate disconnect... ;)

No it will be a good ways from the panel. I was checking out the disconnects that Speedy mentioned at the depot and they look like a pretty good deal . They had a 30 amp and a 60. I guess the 60 is recomended because the breaker will be 30a.?? Thanks for the replys.
 

Jadnashua

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By definition, it would seem that if you have a 30A breaker, the disconnect would need to be rated for at least 30A; I think the 60A isn't needed. If I understand this, it's sort of like sizing the wiring, you can't use less than 12g on a 20A circuit, but 10g would be overkill...why spend the money unless you have a very long run.
 

Chris75

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jadnashua said:
By definition, it would seem that if you have a 30A breaker, the disconnect would need to be rated for at least 30A; I think the 60A isn't needed. If I understand this, it's sort of like sizing the wiring, you can't use less than 12g on a 20A circuit, but 10g would be overkill...why spend the money unless you have a very long run.


60 amp disconnect is a pretty common thing you will find in a home center, and cheaper than a 30 amp...
 

Jadnashua

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Sounds like a plan, then. I was just figuring the 30A would be cheaper, and was all that was required. Must be a volume thing...
 

Chris75

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jadnashua said:
Sounds like a plan, then. I was just figuring the 30A would be cheaper, and was all that was required. Must be a volume thing...


Yep... Not really even sure why they make a 30a...
 

Cwhyu2

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I would run 10/3wground from your main panel ,install new 30 amp brkr
unless you need to upgrade your service and panel.
 

Speedy Petey

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cwhyu2 said:
I would run 10/3wground from your main panel ,install new 30 amp brkr
unless you need to upgrade your service and panel.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the original question about needing a disconnect.

Also, 10/3 is NOT needed for a water heater. 10/2 is perfect and typical for this installation.
Using 10/3 is basically wasteful.
 

HammerSlammer

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Speedy Petey said:
I'm not sure what this has to do with the original question about needing a disconnect.

Also, 10/3 is NOT needed for a water heater. 10/2 is perfect and typical for this installation.
Using 10/3 is basically wasteful.

How about the idea that (smart) water heaters of the future might requie a neutral?? Just remembering the days when we ran 10-2 for dryers....

I did price out a roll of 10-2 and 10-3 the other day. More than a water heater.:(
 

Bob NH

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hammerslammer said:
How about the idea that (smart) water heaters of the future might requie a neutral?? Just remembering the days when we ran 10-2 for dryers....

I did price out a roll of 10-2 and 10-3 the other day. More than a water heater.:(

Anyone that builds a "smart" water heater that requires a neutral or a 120 Volt circuit has proved that he is not smart enough to build a "smart" water heater.
 

HammerSlammer

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Bob NH said:
Anyone that builds a "smart" water heater that requires a neutral or a 120 Volt circuit has proved that he is not smart enough to build a "smart" water heater.

Right. I was just wondering if it might be "smart" to run a nuetral...

22 years ago my plumbers tried to talk me out of lowboy gas heaters in the crawlers. I was too "smart" to listen to them.:rolleyes: I'd like to get this chit right in case i last another 22.
 

Chris75

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hammerslammer said:
Just remembering the days when we ran 10-2 for dryers....

10-2 was never allowed for a dryer...need a insulated neutral.... You were allowed to use the neutral as a ground, but not the other way around...
 

Speedy Petey

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As I scroll down I see Chris beat me to the reply.
I see old 10/2 all the times used for dryers. This was NEVER code legal NOR was it ever safe!!!!
Folks who used 10/2 for dryers simply did not know, or care to know, the code.
 

HammerSlammer

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Speedy Petey said:
As I scroll down I see Chris beat me to the reply.
I see old 10/2 all the times used for dryers. This was NEVER code legal NOR was it ever safe!!!!
Folks who used 10/2 for dryers simply did not know, or care to know, the code.

Wow what a shock for me. I guess i've seen it to and assumed that it was allowed in the past. I have some 10-2 to tear out on my oun house but fortunately it was for a future 2nd laundry room and was never used. Thanks,:eek:
 

hj

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10/2

10/2 w grd was the standard for decades before the 4 terminal plugs were adopted. The difference between a dryer and a water heater is that the dryer has a 120 volt control and motor circuit that needs the neutral, whether it is a 10/2 or 10/3 w ground. And they were always "safe" because the neutral and shell were bonded together.
 

Speedy Petey

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hj said:
10/2 w grd was the standard for decades before the 4 terminal plugs were adopted.
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
It was NEVER the "standard". At least by anyone who knew what they were doing.
As has been said now several times, 10/2 has NO neutral in a 120/240v application. This means the bare ground carried current. This was never allowed and was never safe.
The ONLY exception was when SEU cable was used. This is the service cable that has two conductors with the grounded (NOT grounding) conductor wrapped around them. This exception is now long gone as well.



hj said:
......whether it is a 10/2 or 10/3 w ground. And they were always "safe" because the neutral and shell were bonded together.
Which is the reason for needing an insulated neutral as opposed to a bare ground. Any kind of 10/3 was safe in the past. 10/2 was NOT.
 

hj

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10/2

In that case there were a "jillion" electricians who did not know what they were doing, including the one that wired my new house 6 years ago, to match my 3 prong male plug. As I said, it was standard for decades. You never saw a 4 prong plug for a dryer until the last decade at the earliest. Maybe you are too new in the business to go back that far.
 
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