Submersible pump in a shallow well?

I have a dug well at my summer camp and it's a pain to pull the jet pump when winterizing it each fall, mainly cause bugs and junk fall into the drop pipe hole and each Spring I have bacteria in the water and have to disinfect the system.

I am thinking about putting in a submersible and sealing the whole thing tight. Do you think I can pull this off and not have anything freeze? Here is the setup:

Well is about 30" diameter concrete casing (about 20 ft from the lake and about 8 feet uphill). Water level is at 9 ft from top but bottom of well is only 18 inches below that. We have never run out of water...yet. It must fill fast since the lake is so close. I will be rebuilding the pump house around/over the well since the wooden one was crappy. I will build it of concrete block and seal it real good, but it will NOT be freeze proof. I plan to then put a lighter cover over the well (but it will be sealed) since the current concrete cap will be difficult to remove with a pump house over the well.

My questions

1. Is 18 inches enough for a submersible? Digging it deeper would be difficult. Suggestions?

2. Is there a way to water to drain back into the well so the water level in the drop pipe will go down below the freeze level- without opening it up? Freeze level here in Massachusetts is about 4 feet, but probably lower in the airspace of the wide well. It is steeply uphill to the house from the well.

Pic is current well with pumphouse removed and the current jet pump on top.

thanks,

You can put a submersible in the well.

You have two possible solutions to the "drainback/freezing" issue.

1. You can run the discharge pipe through the side of the well below the frost line.

2. You can remove (or drill a hole through) the check valve in the pump and put a check valve in the line at the top of the well, or at the tank if it is less than about 25 ft above the water in the well. When you want to drain it you open a drain valve at the top of the well and that will also admit air so the water will drain out of the pipe in the well.

If the bottom of the submersible is sitting just on or an inch off the bottom you should have enough water at the inlet of the pump.

You may want to disinfect your well even with a submersible pump. Many shallow well are not well sealed against infiltration and will frequently fail the coliform test. How far is the well from the septic leach field?

You should not get a pump at the big box store unless you can find one that matches the characteristic of your jet pump. Most well pumps sold at such stores will be designed for a deep well and will deliver far too much head (pressure). You probably want a 1/2 HP pump with the lowest pressure available, which should deliver 5 GPM at about 80 psi and 7 to 8 GPM at 40 psi.

You may want to disinfect the well even with the submersible pump. Shallow wells are often not well sealed and are susceptible to infiltration. How far is the well from the septic system leach field, or your neighbor's leach field?

That big space between the concrete well casing and the concrete slab is a great place for the water running down the hill to get into the water supply. The runoff should be diverted from the well area and the space should be sealed.

Thanks Bob,

Yes, you are right about the pump size. The 1/2 hp jet in use now is just wimpy enough to give us a fair flow rate, without exceeding the capacity of the well.

Since the photo, I have sealed around the well casing with concrete and with the new pump house, there should be absolutely no intrusion of surface water and no way for bugs to get in. My neighbors (both sides) wells test clean so I am hopeful that sealing it will cure the bacteria problem.

But I thought that subs were long, like 2-3 ft, and won't the motor in this case will be up out of the water and subject to overheating?

thanks,

The Goulds 5GS05R which will deliver 7.5 GPM at 40 psi and 5 GPM at 80 psi has a motor that is 9.5" long and a wet end that is 11.3" long for a total of about 20.8 inches. You can get a 1/2 HP pump with more flow but it will be just a bit longer. The motor will be the same for most 1/2 HP pumps.

You can lay it on its side with a slight up angle at the outlet to get nearer the bottom. In that case you would want an elbow to connect to the discharge pipe.

The inlet should be supported a little off the bottom so the water flow doesn't scour mud to get into the inlet. If you dump a little clean stone into the well to make a clean bottom it will reduce the mud that gets stirred up.

Here is a link to some Meyers pumps. http://www.femyers.com/pdf/pdf.ws/ws brochure/k3153-20.pdf

OK, that's good to know that there are subs that small.

But if I want to dig the well a little deeper, does anyone know of any cool device kinda like a post hole digger on a LONG shaft or rope that can be used to dig the well a few feet deeper? If I could get it to 3 or 4 ft deep, it would double the volume and maybe allow me to use a slightly bigger pump for more pressure/flow.

I'm sure there are a few creative diggers out there that have done something like this. ???

thanks,

I am going to go the opposite direction here, and suggest you stay with a jet.

I have been dangled via winch into more than 1 dug well fishing out a sub that has twisted off, or been cut free. My father and brothers will tell you storys about nasty nasty stuff in peoples dug wells, and I can tell you it doesn't make 2 cents worth of diffrerence whether it is a jet or sub. You have a pretty good system started here. Finishing off the thing with some silicone is about the best you can do. It is the sitting idle, and spring runoff that causes the bacteria build up, not so much the installation of the pump.

It is a good idea to pump and waste a lot of water from a system like this which is activated each spring. Shocking or clorinating is also a not a bad thing... Trust me, i have seen some very gross stuff in these wells that people drink out of every day.

Reminds me of the time dad and I got a call one Sunday after noon to fish someones prize 4 H cow out of their dug well. Apparrently the pieces of rotted plywood covering the water supply for this person's new manufactured home (on an old farmplace) weren't up to supporting Bessie who was fenced into the peoples back yard. The cow spent most of a day about 50 feet below ground. They went out to investigate after the water was stained coming out of the faucet. The first solution was to lower said homeowner down the hole to secure a rope around said cow. About 20 feet down the guy starts screaming he can't breathe and to pull him up. We think the cow had used up all the oxygen in the hole being stuck in there for so long. So after making a long poking stick out of a few sections of well pipe, dad manages to get a tow strap looped around the cows neck, hollars at me to hit the winch, and we extract the cow to the surface in a most expidited manner. Expecting this cow to be adversly affected by its time spent lodged in a 4' hole, submerged in water with little to no oxygen left over, followed by a 50 elevator ride by the neck, I was surprised when the cow plopped to the ground, blinked twice, stood up and walked away like nothing had happened. About 2 years later, the guy dropped off some steaks at dads thanking him for his service above and beyond the call of a normal well man.

Oh, and digging below your casing is not a great idea.

If the water line and buildings the well supplies are not going to be heated 365, changing what you have now will not really be of any extra value.

Thanks Mr. Pike.

I think that I am going to take your advice and stick with the jet since I know that this system works fine, if I can only get rid of the bugs. The water is very clean, tasty and tests perfect for everything else. Hopefully once I have it properly sealed up and disinfected, all it will need is a little shock and flush each spring.

Do you think that opening the drain plugs on the bottom of this 1/2 HP Goulds jet will drain it enough for freeze protection? I don't want to have to pull it from the pumphouse just to drain it. It's gonna spend the winter in the pumphouse anyway since there is no heat anywhere around. The pipe to the house I am not worried about as it will drain downhill to the pump when disconnected.

Also, what material might be a good replacement for the monstrosly heavy concrete cap on the top of the well casing? Since it will now be in a totally sealed concrete block pumphouse, I want to replace it with a lighter one that is easier to move if ever required. I assume that plywood will absorb enough moisture to get wrecked in a few years, but a steel plate will rust. Any good composite sheet material strong enough to hold a pump on top??

thanks,

This is my question as well. I would be very interested rick.a to hear how your well is going. I am starting to lean towards a jet pump afterall! It has been difficult to find this question answered, so I would appreciate anyones help. Thank you.

Please use the blue box above to "Post New Thread". Ask your questions in new thread. This one is 13 years old, and I am afraid a couple of those guys are no longer with us.