Sweat in new shower valve question

HDFAN1 · Aug 4, 2007

Had a plumber sweat in my new Kohler shower valve while he was there for some other work on Friday.

Today I start reading the directions that came with it, which he clearly did NOT read prior to starting work. First he sweated the damn thing in wrong. Don't know how, just know he said he F'ed up and had to unsweat it & re-do.

When I read the instructions this morning, it states to remove the guts of the valve before applying any heat to it.

I don't think he did this. The thing is just capped off rite now, so I cant test it. Do y'all think this would have damaged the valve in any way?
I don't want to get the walls tiled in & then find out the thing is damaged.

All advice welcome & appreciated.

Master Plumber Mark · Aug 4, 2007

yes it can

he installed it upside down --- didnt he???

Kohler is a poor valve in the first place anyway....

hard to take apart and a pain to put back together.
sometimes the trim is a nightmare to mess with too.

but its always best to take the cartridge out
before you heat them all up

I always do that with my DELTA 1700 valves...

mostly becasue it seems to give the heat and
pressure that can build up some place
to blow out into while you are soldering the joints at the faucet....

if you dont take the valve apart you risk the solder
blowing back out of the joint from the pressure
and of course its stressful on the gaskets too .

I would watch the solder joints to be sure they dont have
a pin hole leak in them

It might be ok...

but you can probably get a free cartridge from Kohler
if it does mess up

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

HDFAN1 · Aug 4, 2007

Yeah, I think he did install it upside down.

Man, I wish I had known Kohler wasn't suct a great valve before I bought this thing.

Wouldn't I know it if the soldered joint had a pinhole? I should be seeing water right?

Also, the dumba$$ didn't get the the thing level I guess, because the copper riser that goes up to the showerhead is about 3 inches off center.

Which brings me to my next question. Will it hurt anything for me to "pull" the top of the riser over to center and screw it down. I guess my question is will this put too much pressure on the sweated joint at the valve? The riser is prolly 48" or so tall.

GrumpyPlumber · Aug 4, 2007

Have HIM do that.
If it leaks later from stress on the soldered joint, he could claim it your doing.

hj · Aug 4, 2007

valve

My Delta valves do not come with the core inserted. It is with the trim and the valve has blank off covers for testing.

Master Plumber Mark · Aug 4, 2007

My Delta Valves

Yea that is right about the new ones.. HJ

they do now come in the new trim pack...dont they?

I still have about 150 1700 bodies from
before the change over to the new style....

probably about 75 1400 brass bodies too. I dont think I can
get trim kits for these anymore so i just use the
cartriges up when I need to repair a 1300

still got maybe 25 1500 laying around.....

They are all great faucets and
they never spoil or go bad......

HDFAN1 · Aug 5, 2007

GrumpyPlumber said:
Have HIM do that.
If it leaks later from stress on the soldered joint, he could claim it your doing.

So is it not a good idea to do it that way, stressing the connection?

Terry · Aug 5, 2007

Soldering it is prefered.

What he meant, was let the plumber repair or fix it.

hj · Aug 5, 2007

Delta

150 and 75? Was there a train wreck in front of your house and you went out and picked a few crates of them up?

Dunbar Plumbing · Aug 5, 2007

I'd fire the plumber, remove the kohler valve, put in a delta and move on.

You think you got problems now, wait till that valve needs servicing and kohler's website is like a needle in a haystack finding information, along with what the supply houses are willing to have in stock.

It's not worth it in the long run. I have a kohler valve I bought off an online auction and it came with tons of other stuff...like someone indirectly was saying, "Here, take this and get it out of my hands before it breaks" LOL!!!

Off topic:

On the new Delta shower valves, what's the purpose of that black insert piece inside of the valve body? It's in the top hole of the shower valve and I've never been able to install a cartridge without removing it.

Kinda looks like an integral screen to catch debri before heading up to the shower head?

GrumpyPlumber · Aug 5, 2007

Terry said:
Soldering it is prefered.

What he meant, was let the plumber repair or fix it.

Exactly, you paid him to do it right...so he should do what he was paid for.
Honestly, centering a shower valve and head is very basic, unless there's a situation that prevents it. (for example, if existing trim/tile is too expensive to replace, which he should present to you as an option vs expense before making a decision to place it 3" off center)
You shouldn't have to redo work you paid for...also..as I said before, he could attempt to imply he's not liable for future troubles on his workmanship.
Example...say he forgot to sweat a joint and it leaks only after the wall is closed...
Two things you should have questioned prior to him doing any work...
Is he licensed?
Is he insured?
I answer those two questions all the time, happily.
One last note...Kohler isn't a bad name per say...just tends to be more tedious on installs.
Many plumbers rightfully prefer simpler valves with fewer parts for good reason.....less can go wrong.

HDFAN1 · Aug 5, 2007

OK, I can see I need to clarify....

The valve body is centered. However, the right side of the valve is just a little bit lower to the floor than the left side.

So this makes the top of the 48 inch riser , where the shower head & pipe (???) screw in about three inches to the right of center

I don't really want this guy back in my house, to be honest. So I was gonna just pull the top of the riser over to center and screw it to the blocking. But from what yall are saying, that prolly isn't the best idea.

Plus, I dont know for sure if the valve was damaged when he sweated it in wrong, then unsweated it, and then sweated it in again without removing the valve body.

Should I just eat it & go buy a delta and hire a different plumber?

Frenchie · Aug 5, 2007

That'd be my advice - what Rugged said - get someone who knows what they're doing this time.

HDFAN1 · Aug 5, 2007

OK, where does one find Delta 1700 and how much? Don't want anything fancy, just reliable. The Kohler unit with trim was ~$200 at Lowes. Wanna stay in that ballpark if I can.

Also, this is a tub/shower combo. Does that matter? 1700 still will work?

Dunbar Plumbing · Aug 5, 2007

HDFAN1 said:
Should I just eat it & go buy a delta and hire a different plumber?

This will be the best move you'll make, take that burned up valve back to the store (trust me, they'll take it back

)

and do the above. The 1700 series isn't as common as the 1300 or 1500 series, but any 3 of those would be a good investment.

The 1700 series has separate temp/volume controls aside from the latter. That way you hop in the shower and turn the lever up and you have the setting you left it at the day before.

HDFAN1 · Aug 5, 2007

Can I get it at lowes or H depot?

And why the heck would they take it back? I would be embarassed to go in there with solder & black crap all over the thing & try & get my money back.

GrumpyPlumber · Aug 5, 2007

HDFAN1 said:
Can I get it at lowes or H depot?

And why the heck would they take it back? I would be embarassed to go in there with solder & black crap all over the thing & try & get my money back.

LOL...so would I.
HD or Lowes should carry them, but if yer gonna get a new plumber, I'd have him grab it.
and again...check to see if he's legit...get what you pay for.

Master Plumber Mark · Aug 5, 2007

1700 valves

I agree with RUGGED ...that valve is a joke
and I would rather take a beating than have to
try to find parts to repair one after only 2 years have passed.

a 1700 valve should be available anywhere
for about $145.00

HJ...
my stock of valves has come from the supply houses
that needed to dump them at inventory time...
Because I always pay my bill on time and they give me
first dibbs on all the faucets they have robbed for parts
and track pack bodies that were restocked ect....

and when the counter guys need to dump delta goodies
I ALWAYS give the fellow that turns me on to the
treasure trove usually a 50 dollar gift cert to a nice
restraunt.

when they discontinued the 1500 and
switched over to the 1700
they were left stuck with literally hundreds of them that they
could not sell anymore...most suply houses were...

basically I got the bodies for pratcially nothing..

less than 5 bucks each.

it was a great windfalll at the time cause

they dont ever ever spoil

HDFAN1 · Aug 5, 2007

Mark, I assume $145 is the valve only? Been at Lowes.com, and the whole deal is lookin like ~$250.

Master Plumber Mark · Aug 6, 2007

145-165 at most supply houses

I just talked a lady out of a 1400 nice looking Delta
single handle tub and shower faucet new in the box
on Friday......she paid $135 for everything at LOWES.

I told her that the 1700 was the best series to go with
and for her to take it back.

I put in one of my 1700 valve bodies and a common chrome 1700 trim instead for her.

unless you are trying to get
something in Nickle, Stainless steel or some other fancy
color or brushed satin it should be available complete in a
COMMMON CHROME style at LOWES for 145-165??

here ia a link to one that I found on line that is actually much
nicer looking than the common one I put in friday at $155

http://www.faucet.com/decor/product.pl?mid=3624&fh=Chrome&rpp=12&N=222+3000606+103+55+3000170+135

actually, that is a pretty nice site I found.....
free overnight shippnig, and it looks like the professionals get another
%30 off that list price....

I just made an application for fun.

Sweat in new shower valve question

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