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Thread: Made a mistake...wrong cement

  1. #16
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    With the time you have spent talking to everyone about it you could have redone the job.

    Tear it out and redo it.

    The peace of mind will be worth the extra effort and time.

    If you don't eventualy you will have problems and will kick your self for not taking the time now.

  2. #17
    DIY Member cruiser's Avatar
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    As much of a pain in the ass as it will be,do it again. Everytime you flush that toilet you're gonna wonder exactly where the flush is going....you know you are

    It's one of those things,offer it up as my Mom would say

  3. #18

    Default Don't Touch That Drain!

    Chemist here. (But you don't need to be one to read a label).

    I've got a can of CPVC cement and a can of all purpose cement in my hands.
    They have exactly the same ingredients.

    Solvents: Tetrahhydrofuran, Methyl ethyl ketone, cyclohexanone

    Resin: CPVC Resin 686-48-82-8

    It seems your Home Depot guy knew what he was talking about. The CPVC resin works on ABS, PVC, and CPVC systems.
    Last edited by Verdeboy; 07-31-2007 at 11:44 AM.

  4. #19

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    Hey, looks like I'm getting some supporters here!
    Thank you Chemist!!!!

    It might be a gamble, but I'm a gambler so I am very tempted to wait and see what happens.

    I received some "inside information" from a manufacturer of some of these cement products, and the ingridients are the same, or very similar, and as long as used properly, they will not leak...according to this person.

  5. #20
    Licensed Grump GrumpyPlumber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdeboy
    Chemist here. (But you don't need to be one to read a label).

    I've got a can of CPVC cement and a can of all purpose cement in my hands.
    They have exactly the same ingredients.

    Solvents: Tetrahhydrofuran, Methyl ethyl ketone, cyclohexanone

    Resin: CPVC Resin 686-48-82-8

    It seems your Home Depot guy knew what he was talking about. The CPVC resin works on ABS, PVC, and CPVC systems.
    ABS solvent:
    "Ingredient: ACRYLONITRILE BUTADIENE STYRENE RESIN
    Ingredient Sequence Number: 01
    Percent: 25-35
    NIOSH (RTECS) Number: AT6970000
    CAS Number: 9003-56-9
    -------------------------------------
    Proprietary: NO
    Ingredient: 2-BUTANONE (METHYL ETHYL KETONE) (MEK)
    "
    NOT a chemist, but seems there are a couple other things in there too.
    I say just use Elmers...heck why not?
    "The biggest regrets we have in life are the chances we never took."

  6. #21
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking I told ya so

    If its nasty enough to give you a good BUZZ

    and you cant pull the pipe apart after about 10 seconds

    it has just got to work ........


    look at the ingredeints



    ABS solvent:
    "Ingredient: ACRYLONITRILE BUTADIENE STYRENE RESIN
    Ingredient Sequence Number: 01
    Percent: 25-35
    NIOSH (RTECS) Number: AT6970000
    CAS Number: 9003-56-9
    -------------------------------------
    Proprietary: NO
    Ingredient: 2-BUTANONE (METHYL ETHYL KETONE) (MEK)
    "
    NOT a chemist, but seems there are a couple other things in there too.
    I say just use Elmers...heck why not?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Grumpy....That stuff looks a whole lot meaner that Elmers....

    the guy at home depot is probably 100% right.........

    I would guess that it will last at least 95 years give or take



    of course if the fellow wants to do an extra little test, just take a spare fitting
    and piece of pipe and glue them together......

    wait an hour and see if he can get them apart.....

    if they dont come apart .

    ..I would leave sleeping dogs lie...

  7. #22

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    When it comes to plumbing I'm a novice so I can not comment on the various cements available. However the majority of professionals on this site say re-do the job. And that's just what I would do. They gave me some advice this week on placing piping under a slab. I kept calling plumbers until I found one that would do the job as per the advice received at this forum. I didn't tell the plumbers how to do the job I just asked how they planned on doing the job. When I found one that agreed with the advice received here I hired him even though he wasn't the cheapest. You will regret not re-doing the drain lines one day and it will be much more expensive to fix at that time. Take the advice you asked for.

  8. #23

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    I have very much respect for all the plumbers who give advice here, and I have received help in several cases before.

    In regards to the previous post about testing, I did this a week ago, and was just lazy enough to not repair the ceiling, so the cement/glue has certainly had a long while to set...and I can still not pull them apart at all.

    Actually I extended a sink drain that was ABS about 4 months ago with the same cement, and it is holding up very well. We use that sink almost every day.

    I'm curious to hear how long the more sceptical people believe this will hold...
    If that is 95 years instead of the expected lifetime of 450 years, than I think it is fine. And if it is only 1 month, I think I will voulunteer to be the guineapig and leave it to see what happens.

    I appreciate everyone's opinon and all the advice

  9. #24
    DIY Member micp879's Avatar
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    Here is my question... if he was just going to leave it alone and see what happens regardless of the overwhelming opinion on this forum, why did he even bother posting the question? He has multiple very experienced people telling him to redo it, yet he gets 2-3 people saying to leave it, and he chooses to listen to the minority. It just sounds as if he is picking out what he wants to hear, and ignoring the rest. This is a very reputable forum, many people on other plumbing forums refer people over to this forum for competent advice. If he is not going to listen to the experts, why does he bother posting at all? Its as if he was just hoping everyone would tell him that it would be totally fine as is. When that didnt happen, he chose to put his head in the sand.

  10. #25
    Licensed Grump GrumpyPlumber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by micp879
    Here is my question... if he was just going to leave it alone and see what happens regardless of the overwhelming opinion on this forum, why did he even bother posting the question? He has multiple very experienced people telling him to redo it, yet he gets 2-3 people saying to leave it, and he chooses to listen to the minority. It just sounds as if he is picking out what he wants to hear, and ignoring the rest. This is a very reputable forum, many people on other plumbing forums refer people over to this forum for competent advice. If he is not going to listen to the experts, why does he bother posting at all? Its as if he was just hoping everyone would tell him that it would be totally fine as is. When that didnt happen, he chose to put his head in the sand.
    My thoughts exactly.
    gotta run...off to the hardware store to get some elmers...
    "The biggest regrets we have in life are the chances we never took."

  11. #26
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking putting his mind at ease

    Maybe he is just lazy....

    but he ought to go back tothe HD store and
    talk to the real expert that sells that stuff to
    everyone that buys miles of ABS pipe and see if their
    have been any complaints..

    I doubt that their have been any

    maybe he just wants to put his mind at ease..


    persoanlly if the HD expert says its OK,



    .if it is something they sell alll the time ,

    I dont think its anything to fret much over...

  12. #27
    Homeowner geniescience's Avatar
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    resistance to advice can be good, too. Talk to the 1-800-customer-support line at the manufacturer of that product. Find out on your own. Search more on the web about that product, and about that main ingredient.

    New things can be learned by old dogs too. Something good may come out of all this.

    There used to be only one glue for PVC and one other glue for ABS; and it was a total no-no to use the wrong glue. Things have changed "recently", but I notice that no manufacturer is promoting an either-or-and-both product in any big way. Not at all. No big push going on. So, I wonder, I really wonder. If there is a product that can do both, why isnt't everyone selling it? It sure would make inventory and distribution easier, and that is one thing that a profitable chain seeks everyday.

    One day I'll know more. Today, I'm still ignorant about the "new" dual-purpose product, and its limitations.

    If I had your situation, I'd go hunting for more information right now, and not do anything else.

    david

  13. #28
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    If there is a product that can do both, why isnt't everyone selling it?
    Years ago, I was plumbing a home with Oatey All-Purpose Glue. It worked for both ABS and PVC. It was a milky white color.

    After working a few hours, My stomach felt like it was going to burst.
    I lay down on the plywood floor for a bit till I felt better.

    When I went back to the shop, I told the other plumbers I would never use that stuff again. One of the guys laughed and called me a baby and grabbed a can to throw in this truck.

    The next day I saw him, and he was swearing he'd never use the stuff again. Hmmm....... Okay.
    I never did figure out if it was a bad batch, or if that is how it was supposed by be. Never even tried it again.

    I like the Oaty ABS glue that is black with the blue label.

    And I don't seem to have a problem with the PVC glue they make either.
    So why do we use this stuff?

  14. #29

    Default Selective Hearing/Reading

    If I offended any of the experienced plumbers who helpfully give advice for free here, I did not mean to do that by ignoring your recommendations.
    Maybe I practiced Selective Hearing when I rather listen to the people who say keep it compared to Tear It Out...

    In response to: "Why do you ask a question and not follow the answer" I have to say that if everyone told me, You have to change it, I would do that. However, several people have said it will be fine.

    In response to the last post, which is quite interesting from a business perspective. If one solvent could do it all, the company would make less money...everyone would buy this one product and use it until they needed another can. Now, there are about 20 different kinds of cement, and hence, most plumbers and maybe diy'ers carry several diffenent kinds simultaneously.

    I did contact a manufacturer, and I received some very interesting responses. VERY interesting responses.... and although I promised to keep the company's advice confidential, I can say that I'm probably not going to tear everything out at this point.
    If someone has proof that it will leak for sure after X number of months, I probably would!

    Maybe I'm lazy, maybe I'm stubborn, or maybe I just like to gamble. I do admit that the risk (leaks and damaged drywall) is greater than the reward (saving of $ 50 in material and a few hours of work).

  15. #30
    Homeowner geniescience's Avatar
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    glad you made instant friends with tech support people. Happens to me too.

    Thank you for sharing that.

    david

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