Made a mistake...wrong ABS cement

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Master Plumber Mark

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I told ya so

If its nasty enough to give you a good BUZZ

and you cant pull the pipe apart after about 10 seconds

it has just got to work ........


look at the ingredeints



ABS solvent:
"Ingredient: ACRYLONITRILE BUTADIENE STYRENE RESIN
Ingredient Sequence Number: 01
Percent: 25-35
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: AT6970000
CAS Number: 9003-56-9
-------------------------------------
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: 2-BUTANONE (METHYL ETHYL KETONE) (MEK)
"
NOT a chemist, but seems there are a couple other things in there too.
I say just use Elmers...heck why not?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grumpy....That stuff looks a whole lot meaner that Elmers....

the guy at home depot is probably 100% right.........

I would guess that it will last at least 95 years give or take



of course if the fellow wants to do an extra little test, just take a spare fitting
and piece of pipe and glue them together......

wait an hour and see if he can get them apart.....

if they dont come apart .

..I would leave sleeping dogs lie...
 
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spebby

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When it comes to plumbing I'm a novice so I can not comment on the various cements available. However the majority of professionals on this site say re-do the job. And that's just what I would do. They gave me some advice this week on placing piping under a slab. I kept calling plumbers until I found one that would do the job as per the advice received at this forum. I didn't tell the plumbers how to do the job I just asked how they planned on doing the job. When I found one that agreed with the advice received here I hired him even though he wasn't the cheapest. You will regret not re-doing the drain lines one day and it will be much more expensive to fix at that time. Take the advice you asked for.
 

froddan

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I have very much respect for all the plumbers who give advice here, and I have received help in several cases before.

In regards to the previous post about testing, I did this a week ago, and was just lazy enough to not repair the ceiling, so the cement/glue has certainly had a long while to set...and I can still not pull them apart at all.

Actually I extended a sink drain that was ABS about 4 months ago with the same cement, and it is holding up very well. We use that sink almost every day.

I'm curious to hear how long the more sceptical people believe this will hold...
If that is 95 years instead of the expected lifetime of 450 years, than I think it is fine. And if it is only 1 month, I think I will voulunteer to be the guineapig and leave it to see what happens.

I appreciate everyone's opinon and all the advice
 

Micp879

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Here is my question... if he was just going to leave it alone and see what happens regardless of the overwhelming opinion on this forum, why did he even bother posting the question? He has multiple very experienced people telling him to redo it, yet he gets 2-3 people saying to leave it, and he chooses to listen to the minority. It just sounds as if he is picking out what he wants to hear, and ignoring the rest. This is a very reputable forum, many people on other plumbing forums refer people over to this forum for competent advice. If he is not going to listen to the experts, why does he bother posting at all? Its as if he was just hoping everyone would tell him that it would be totally fine as is. When that didnt happen, he chose to put his head in the sand.
 

GrumpyPlumber

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micp879 said:
Here is my question... if he was just going to leave it alone and see what happens regardless of the overwhelming opinion on this forum, why did he even bother posting the question? He has multiple very experienced people telling him to redo it, yet he gets 2-3 people saying to leave it, and he chooses to listen to the minority. It just sounds as if he is picking out what he wants to hear, and ignoring the rest. This is a very reputable forum, many people on other plumbing forums refer people over to this forum for competent advice. If he is not going to listen to the experts, why does he bother posting at all? Its as if he was just hoping everyone would tell him that it would be totally fine as is. When that didnt happen, he chose to put his head in the sand.

My thoughts exactly.
gotta run...off to the hardware store to get some elmers...
 

Master Plumber Mark

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putting his mind at ease

Maybe he is just lazy....

but he ought to go back tothe HD store and
talk to the real expert that sells that stuff to
everyone that buys miles of ABS pipe and see if their
have been any complaints..

I doubt that their have been any

maybe he just wants to put his mind at ease..


persoanlly if the HD expert says its OK,



.if it is something they sell alll the time ,

I dont think its anything to fret much over...
 

Geniescience

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resistance to advice can be good, too. Talk to the 1-800-customer-support line at the manufacturer of that product. Find out on your own. Search more on the web about that product, and about that main ingredient.

New things can be learned by old dogs too. Something good may come out of all this.

There used to be only one glue for PVC and one other glue for ABS; and it was a total no-no to use the wrong glue. Things have changed "recently", but I notice that no manufacturer is promoting an either-or-and-both product in any big way. Not at all. No big push going on. So, I wonder, I really wonder. If there is a product that can do both, why isnt't everyone selling it? It sure would make inventory and distribution easier, and that is one thing that a profitable chain seeks everyday.

One day I'll know more. Today, I'm still ignorant about the "new" dual-purpose product, and its limitations.

If I had your situation, I'd go hunting for more information right now, and not do anything else. :eek:

david
 

Terry

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If there is a product that can do both, why isnt't everyone selling it?

Years ago, I was plumbing a home with Oatey All-Purpose Glue. It worked for both ABS and PVC. It was a milky white color.

After working a few hours, My stomach felt like it was going to burst.
I lay down on the plywood floor for a bit till I felt better.

When I went back to the shop, I told the other plumbers I would never use that stuff again. One of the guys laughed and called me a baby and grabbed a can to throw in this truck.

The next day I saw him, and he was swearing he'd never use the stuff again. Hmmm....... Okay.
I never did figure out if it was a bad batch, or if that is how it was supposed by be. Never even tried it again.

I like the Oaty ABS glue that is black with the blue label.

And I don't seem to have a problem with the PVC glue they make either.
So why do we use this stuff?
 

froddan

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Selective Hearing/Reading

If I offended any of the experienced plumbers who helpfully give advice for free here, I did not mean to do that by ignoring your recommendations.
Maybe I practiced Selective Hearing when I rather listen to the people who say keep it compared to Tear It Out...

In response to: "Why do you ask a question and not follow the answer" I have to say that if everyone told me, You have to change it, I would do that. However, several people have said it will be fine.

In response to the last post, which is quite interesting from a business perspective. If one solvent could do it all, the company would make less money...everyone would buy this one product and use it until they needed another can. Now, there are about 20 different kinds of cement, and hence, most plumbers and maybe diy'ers carry several diffenent kinds simultaneously.

I did contact a manufacturer, and I received some very interesting responses. VERY interesting responses.... and although I promised to keep the company's advice confidential, I can say that I'm probably not going to tear everything out at this point.
If someone has proof that it will leak for sure after X number of months, I probably would!

Maybe I'm lazy, maybe I'm stubborn, or maybe I just like to gamble. I do admit that the risk (leaks and damaged drywall) is greater than the reward (saving of $ 50 in material and a few hours of work).:)
 

Buckeyetech

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I had to redo an ABS drain job that was leaking in 6 or 8 fittings that we were 99% certain was glued with the wrong glue. The homeowner had extra ABS pipe and fittings along with a couple of partial cans of both CPVC and PVC glue. The woman thought her now deceased husband had done it right after the turn of the century. So that makes it about seven years old..and a lot of drain water in a basement.

Go Bucks
 

jimi

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Instead of pulling the pipe apart and redo it all.
Is that a possibility to wrap something around the joints for enforcement, call it a damage control.

just my Zen thinking ........
 

Molo

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Labeling and Marketing has caused GE to label the very sam product (100% silicone sealant with biocide) as two different products. "Window and Door" and "Kitchen and Bath". They are the same product.
 

froddan

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Company's Rep

David & others,

It wasn't exactly tech support I spoke and emailed with - but we did exchange a few stories. Let's say it was someone at a high level in the corporation.

However, I am currently replacing the parts where I wasn't 100% happy with the connections anyway, so we'll see if my fittings will last for 7 years or less.

Marketing and Labeling is often very good at turning one product into several...
 

Verdeboy

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GrumpyPlumber said:
ABS solvent:
"Ingredient: ACRYLONITRILE BUTADIENE STYRENE RESIN
Ingredient Sequence Number: 01
Percent: 25-35
NIOSH (RTECS) Number: AT6970000
CAS Number: 9003-56-9
-------------------------------------
Proprietary: NO
Ingredient: 2-BUTANONE (METHYL ETHYL KETONE) (MEK)
"
NOT a chemist, but seems there are a couple other things in there too.
I say just use Elmers...heck why not?

To say that I am recommending anything even remotely close to Elmers glue is ridiculous and fatuous.

Yes, ABS cement has different ingredients than PVC cement, which has different ingredients than CPVC cement. There's no disagreement there. But if you look at the formula for the all purpose cement--at least the one I have--the formula is exactly the same as the CPVC cement.

In mathematics if A=B and B=C then A=C.

A=CPVC Formula
B=All Purpose Formula
C=ABS Formula

And yes, plumber's, like everyone else on this or any forum, can be mistaken.
It's up to the thread-starter to pick and choose from the advice given.
 

BAPlumber

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Most plumbers and home owners are bound by a legal document called the plumbing code. This code is adopted, as law, by many states. I'll quote part of the 2000 Uniform Plumbing Code.

"310.4 Installation Practices. Plumbing systems shall be installed in a manner conforming the this Code, applicable standards and the manufacturer's installation instructions. In instances where the Code, applicable standards or the manufacturer's instructions conflict, the more stringent provisions shall prevail."

I take this to mean that the "more stringent provision" is ABS cement is to be used on ABS pipe, PVC on PVC, etc. Multi-Purpose cement which is listed for PVC and ABS, for the same. Listed Transition cements to join ABS to PVC.

Just because a chemist says it is okay to mix cements and materials doesn't mean it's legal or an accepted building practice.
 

Master Plumber Mark

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bound by the code?

BAPlumber said:
Most plumbers and home owners are bound by a legal document called the plumbing code.

Just because a chemist says it is okay to mix cements and materials doesn't mean it's legal or an accepted building practice.

that sounds real good and al that,
but if that were really the case---

this fellow should not even have been allowed to go to a hardware store and do his own plumbing job in the first
place.....

or be able to buy water heaters and install them himself , ect ect......

but you and I know that they are not going to close
HD down anytmie soon for breaking the code.




 

BAPlumber

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Some states allow a home owner to do their own plumbing as long as they pull a permit. Some states only allow a licensed plumber to do the work. Some don't care one way or the other and haven't adopted a code. I don't recall what state this thread came from. I know my local HD sell fittings and other products that would be deemed illegal in probably every state with a code.
 

Cass

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I don't know of any state that won't sell plumbing parts any plumber can buy to home owners also.
 
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