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Thread: Stuck Moen Cartridge

  1. #31
    DIY Member DavidSeon's Avatar
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    Default Moentrol Cartridge Removal



    Installing a Moen 3570 valve.
    Name:  Moen 3570 TubShower Valve.jpg
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    I seem to remember from somewhere that you should remove internal parts from a tub/shower valve before putting a torch to it, but I can't figure out how the cartridge comes out. Is there an alternative to trying to find the Moen 104421 special tool?
    Name:  Moen 104421 Cartridge Removal Tool.jpg
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    It looks different from my other special tool


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    Last edited by Terry; 11-19-2013 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Subject Already Covered In Existing Thread
    Old Retired Computer Programmer
    Obsolete and loving it

  2. #32
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    The valve in your picture has such a large "thermal mass" that you would not have to disassemble it to solder the pipes in, if you apply the heat properly.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  3. #33
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Default

    There is a clip at the front of the valve that pulls out from the top. Then the cartridge can be pulled out.

  4. #34
    DIY Member DavidSeon's Avatar
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    Default

    Got it. Just wasn't sure if I should give it a good tug or not. Thanks for the help.
    Dave
    Old Retired Computer Programmer
    Obsolete and loving it

  5. #35
    DIY Junior Member kilm's Avatar
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    Default

    Name:  DSC05555.jpg
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Size:  36.1 KBI have a similar problem, any plumber help is much appreciated.

    my shower/tub handle broke while turning it. when i unscrewed everything, i see the cartridge white plastic eaten up and the post i believe its called ( the round metal brass bolt in the center ) of the stem broken in the handle.
    so a removal tool was useless, i got a free replacement cartridge moen 1222 from homedepot, no way to tell my model, except i checked all shower/tub handles on moen website and it seems they all use 1222. the 1222 still doesnt look like my cartridge, mine has very white plastic, the house was built around 2000.

    anyway i drilled 2 1/8" hole in the plastic and put in the holes self drilling screws, tried to twist the screws with a nut wrench and the screws bent and the cartridge didn't move at all, and the plastic broke, i can now see the metal and one round rubber came out.
    i tried using a 1/4" self drilling screw in one of the holes but it was too close to the pipe so i stopped.
    i have used vinegar. nothing.

    now that the plastic broke a bit i can see the post (the round metal brass bolt in the center) which is about 1cm long, i tried to pull it with pliers, and couldnt cause i cant reach deep enought to have a good grasp.
    I called a plumber mr rooter he wanted around $1000 to fix that along with 2 dripping faucets.
    I cant afford that. he told me they overcharge because i called the company directly, he said i could find a self employed plumber to do it for $300, but i dont wana call someone from google.

    im gona buy the lasco 13-2125 removal tool from amazon if i ever get the stem out.

    now im thinking to drill the the round metal brass bolt in the center and use a tap and 1/4" bolt.
    im just affraid that the metal dust and shreds will contaminate the water.

    i had also water leak from the cartridge to the inside wall and into the living room downstairs the first day, until i realized after 24 hours and fixed it with tape.
    it was bad, and i am now afraid of mold or termites. especially that water leaked before when i was cleaning the toilet few months back, i dont know how water leaked to living room, apparently from the floor to behind the baseboard. they make these houses in cardboard boxes ?!
    do i have to tear down the dry wall to check for mold ? i have a newborn in the house and read that it can be dangerous.

    around the pipe is black tape to avoid leaking inside wall.

    thank you.
    Last edited by kilm; 01-10-2013 at 03:58 AM.

  6. #36
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    If the wetting was a one-time thing, and not long in duration, AND it dried out, mold isn't likely a big issue. It can be if it is wet for a long time. No experience with trying to remove a Moen cartridge, so can't help. If worse comes to worse, and you have access from the rear so you don't have to tear up the tile, it might be simpler to just cut the old valve out and put in a new one.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #37
    DIY Junior Member Yacko Warner's Avatar
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    Default Bolt Extractor

    My efforts got the stem/core out, leaving the cartridge body behind.

    I used a screw/bolt extractor tool, sized for bolts 5/8 - 7/8", itself 1/2" at the stem. It went in with a half-dozen hammer taps, and I was able to twist it out with vice-grips. It took me maybe two minutes; the tool was $10.

  8. #38
    DIY Junior Member Asiangem's Avatar
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    Default I got my 30 years old cartridge removed with Kano Kroil Penetrating oil and CRL

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdeboy View Post
    Try spraying it with PB Blaster (available at the autoparts store). Wait a while, then try again.
    I had the same problem with a Grohe cartridge which was never removed (over 30 years). I first put CRL Calicum Lime remover on a rag and covered it with the plastic bag and a rubber band to hold it for one week.

    Then I used my very favorite penetrating oil spray is Kroil Penetrating Spray by Kano. Based on scientific discoveries at Kano Laboratories, Kroil creeps into millionth inch spaces!!

    It really works - there is regular Kroil Penetrating Oil Spray or Kroil Penetrating Oil Spray with Silicone (which may affect the rubber gaskets so you might want to go with the regular spray without silicone). I sprayed is several times through the week and let it just sit there with the penetrating oil on it. And it worked to remove the 30 years old Grohe cartridge that was stuck!

    P.S. You can't buy the Kroil Penetrating oil spray the stores but only on-line. The airplane mechanics swear by this penetrating oil spray!

  9. #39
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    I agree it's great stuff. I bought a gallon of it when I first got into aircraft mechanicking, and it's looking like that's a lifetime supply.
    Last edited by Terry; 06-01-2013 at 12:10 PM.

  10. #40
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Nothing you people are talking about applies to the 1222 cartridge. A 1/2" rod does NOT work. There are several ways to remove the broken 1222 cartridge, but you have to be careful NOT to damage the brass body. I would suggest calling a "good" plumber, because not all plumbers will know how to safely remove it, and might suggest replacing the valve instead.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  11. #41
    DIY Junior Member DaaBoss's Avatar
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    Default A Little Professional help from HJ please - Broken Stem 1222 Moen

    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    Nothing you people are talking about applies to the 1222 cartridge. A 1/2" rod does NOT work. There are several ways to remove the broken 1222 cartridge, but you have to be careful NOT to damage the brass body. I would suggest calling a "good" plumber, because not all plumbers will know how to safely remove it, and might suggest replacing the valve instead.
    HJ,

    While I know most will ignore or not understand your instructions on how to remove a 1222 with the stem broken, I for one would really appreciate finding out how to get it out without destroying the valve. I have a couple of ideas now, but I liked the tap idea 1/2" rod. But now you say it won't work, or would do damage, while others claim it has worked. I had planned to mainly use a drill until I get what I need without hitting the side or back wall of the valve. Or, I will find a solvent that will melt it.

    Here's what I had asked elsewhere, and why:

    The brass shaft actually BROKE OFF the other day when using it normally!! I not only have to replace it, but I also have to figure out how to get it out WITHOUT ANY shaft to pull on. So any advice would be very helpful.

    I'm planning to do a lot of drilling to get the old one out, and may leave the water on to see if before I drill deep, pressure would force it out. [ When drilling, I won't hit the sides of the valve body itself. I've replaced two other "normal 1222's" before, so I know to burnish and clean the body before inserting the new one. ]

    AFTER I drill and get the inner parts out, I'm sure that I'll be left with the plastic shell. HOW do I get that out without destroying the sides of the brass body? Right now, I'm thinking "acetone" or even methyl alcohol. Any ideas out there??


    Awaiting your wisdom.... I have two shower heads, so I'm waiting until my new Moen part comes from E.B.

  12. #42
    DIY Senior Member JerryR's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yacko Warner View Post
    My efforts got the stem/core out, leaving the cartridge body behind.

    I used a screw/bolt extractor tool, sized for bolts 5/8 - 7/8", itself 1/2" at the stem. It went in with a half-dozen hammer taps, and I was able to twist it out with vice-grips. It took me maybe two minutes; the tool was $10.
    Well it happened to me at noon today. Tried to remove a 1225 cartridge and the stem came out leaving the core in the valve. I called my favorite plumber who showed up 2 hours later.

    He used a easy out spiral extractor, a few taps to set it then broke the core free turning the extractor with a big wrench. Out it came.


    JR
    Last edited by Terry; 11-19-2013 at 01:36 PM.
    JR

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