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Thread: Stuck Moen Cartridge

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  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member sabell's Avatar
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    Unhappy Stuck Moen Cartridge

    I quit getting hot water in my garden tub which is seldom used. Closed the stop-check valve on the cold side and left just hot side open. Very little water flow. After researching symptons on the web, determined that it was likely a clogged cartridge causing the problem. I've purchased a replacement Moen 1222 cartridge (which includes the plastic removal tool) and I purchased a metal removal tool as well. The plastic didn't budge the cartridge at all and the metal removal tool provided minimal, side to side, movement of the cartridge. I kept trying it and one of the metal flanges finally broke. Does anyone have a recommendation of something chemical that can be used to loosen this?

    Some additional information - I did remove the retainer clip before trying to remove and I have hot water in every other faucet in the house. I also tried taping with a hammer to try and loosen it. I even sprayed CLR cleaner in the retainer clip slot and around the face in hopes that it might disolve any buildup.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

  2. #2
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Default Hair spray

    I removed/replaced one of these today with no problems but I've been told that spraying the assembly with hairspray seems to help for some reason.


    Might have to use brute force to pull it out of the assembly to get it to come out.


    Moen 1225
    Last edited by Terry; 08-10-2009 at 12:25 AM.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  3. #3

    Default

    Try spraying it with PB Blaster (available at the autoparts store). Wait a while, then try again.

  4. #4
    DIY Junior Member sabell's Avatar
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    Default

    Well.... I didn't get a chance to try the hair spray or PB Blaster. Moen actually called me and suggested white vinegar. I did spray it really good and let it sit. I bought a new removal tool tonight and was able to get more side to side movement but still not budging when I tried to pull it out. Moen also suggested trying to move it up and down, which I did. I tried one last time to pull it out and the post broke off clean inside the cartridge.

    So now the removal tools are useless and the cartridge is still stuck. Any other suggestions or is it time to throw in the towel and find a plumber?

    I truly appreciate the feedback.

  5. #5
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Default

    Buy an easy-out, it's a reverse threaded-like screw and find one similar in size to the post.

    Wind it in until the cartridge moves, it will. Then take a pliers and pull it out.

    Easy-outs are found commonly at automotive stores, big box tool section.

    Use a thin screwdriver and chip away what doesn't come out.

    Using those penetrates probably could of helped in your situation.

    If you're all for getting a brand new faucet, put a Delta in there so you don't have to fight Moen faucets; they are horrible to get those cartridges out.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  6. #6
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking sweating blood on moen positemp

    I had a positemp shower faucet
    about a month ago that almost had
    me in tears....

    of course the whole plastic thng breaks off
    at the wall and I was almost inclined to just
    tear the whole fuacet out...

    I showed the customer what I was up against
    and explained that I might break the faucet
    trying to save it.....he understood and said
    ...go for it...


    I took a pair of channel lock pliers and gripped the
    stupid cartridge then used a straight claw hammer
    to use as leverage between the pliers and the
    brass valve body....and tile wall....
    .

    after prying at it and pulling out
    with the claw hammer for a few minutes, it finally
    gave loose.....


    the torn up rubber innards of the old cartridge
    were actually holding the cartridge in place
    and they had to be pulled out of the piston shaft with a pair of needle nose pliers
    that is probably why you are not getting hot water, the gasket has broken loose
    and wedged itself in between the brass and the cartridge..,,,.....



    that might be what you are up against... its very mean indeed......


    of course if you look anything like your picture,
    and you are in the midwest,

    I might be available to help you out....LOL

    (just kidding)

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member Asiangem's Avatar
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    Default I got my 30 years old cartridge removed with Kano Kroil Penetrating oil and CRL

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdeboy View Post
    Try spraying it with PB Blaster (available at the autoparts store). Wait a while, then try again.
    I had the same problem with a Grohe cartridge which was never removed (over 30 years). I first put CRL Calicum Lime remover on a rag and covered it with the plastic bag and a rubber band to hold it for one week.

    Then I used my very favorite penetrating oil spray is Kroil Penetrating Spray by Kano. Based on scientific discoveries at Kano Laboratories, Kroil creeps into millionth inch spaces!!

    It really works - there is regular Kroil Penetrating Oil Spray or Kroil Penetrating Oil Spray with Silicone (which may affect the rubber gaskets so you might want to go with the regular spray without silicone). I sprayed is several times through the week and let it just sit there with the penetrating oil on it. And it worked to remove the 30 years old Grohe cartridge that was stuck!

    P.S. You can't buy the Kroil Penetrating oil spray the stores but only on-line. The airplane mechanics swear by this penetrating oil spray!

  8. #8
    Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek Mikey's Avatar
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    Default

    I agree it's great stuff. I bought a gallon of it when I first got into aircraft mechanicking, and it's looking like that's a lifetime supply.
    Last edited by Terry; 06-01-2013 at 12:10 PM.

  9. #9
    DIY Member DavidSeon's Avatar
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    Default Moentrol Cartridge Removal



    Installing a Moen 3570 valve.
    Name:  Moen 3570 TubShower Valve.jpg
Views: 1635
Size:  12.3 KB
    I seem to remember from somewhere that you should remove internal parts from a tub/shower valve before putting a torch to it, but I can't figure out how the cartridge comes out. Is there an alternative to trying to find the Moen 104421 special tool?
    Name:  Moen 104421 Cartridge Removal Tool.jpg
Views: 1266
Size:  7.5 KB

    It looks different from my other special tool


    Name:  Special Tool.jpg
Views: 1210
Size:  6.6 KB
    Last edited by Terry; 11-19-2013 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Subject Already Covered In Existing Thread
    Old Retired Computer Programmer
    Obsolete and loving it

  10. #10
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default

    The valve in your picture has such a large "thermal mass" that you would not have to disassemble it to solder the pipes in, if you apply the heat properly.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  11. #11
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Default

    There is a clip at the front of the valve that pulls out from the top. Then the cartridge can be pulled out.

  12. #12
    DIY Member DavidSeon's Avatar
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    Default

    Got it. Just wasn't sure if I should give it a good tug or not. Thanks for the help.
    Dave
    Old Retired Computer Programmer
    Obsolete and loving it

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member kilm's Avatar
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    Default

    Name:  DSC05555.jpg
Views: 1023
Size:  36.1 KBI have a similar problem, any plumber help is much appreciated.

    my shower/tub handle broke while turning it. when i unscrewed everything, i see the cartridge white plastic eaten up and the post i believe its called ( the round metal brass bolt in the center ) of the stem broken in the handle.
    so a removal tool was useless, i got a free replacement cartridge moen 1222 from homedepot, no way to tell my model, except i checked all shower/tub handles on moen website and it seems they all use 1222. the 1222 still doesnt look like my cartridge, mine has very white plastic, the house was built around 2000.

    anyway i drilled 2 1/8" hole in the plastic and put in the holes self drilling screws, tried to twist the screws with a nut wrench and the screws bent and the cartridge didn't move at all, and the plastic broke, i can now see the metal and one round rubber came out.
    i tried using a 1/4" self drilling screw in one of the holes but it was too close to the pipe so i stopped.
    i have used vinegar. nothing.

    now that the plastic broke a bit i can see the post (the round metal brass bolt in the center) which is about 1cm long, i tried to pull it with pliers, and couldnt cause i cant reach deep enought to have a good grasp.
    I called a plumber mr rooter he wanted around $1000 to fix that along with 2 dripping faucets.
    I cant afford that. he told me they overcharge because i called the company directly, he said i could find a self employed plumber to do it for $300, but i dont wana call someone from google.

    im gona buy the lasco 13-2125 removal tool from amazon if i ever get the stem out.

    now im thinking to drill the the round metal brass bolt in the center and use a tap and 1/4" bolt.
    im just affraid that the metal dust and shreds will contaminate the water.

    i had also water leak from the cartridge to the inside wall and into the living room downstairs the first day, until i realized after 24 hours and fixed it with tape.
    it was bad, and i am now afraid of mold or termites. especially that water leaked before when i was cleaning the toilet few months back, i dont know how water leaked to living room, apparently from the floor to behind the baseboard. they make these houses in cardboard boxes ?!
    do i have to tear down the dry wall to check for mold ? i have a newborn in the house and read that it can be dangerous.

    around the pipe is black tape to avoid leaking inside wall.

    thank you.
    Last edited by kilm; 01-10-2013 at 03:58 AM.

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